US government shutdown

Axe_meister

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24343698

How the hell can this happen? Would our House of Lords let something like this happen?

I may not agree on every thing the Democrats propose but I sure do hate the republicans

digitalscream

I guess that the system was set up that way to foster an atmosphere of compromise, but it makes one huge assumption: that everybody is working towards a common goal, and as a consequence of that everybody involved would treat a shutdown as an end-of-the-world scenario.

It completely fails to account for the situation they have now, where the Republicans are plainly quite happy to force a shutdown if it means winning an argument.

Somehow, they've even managed to paint the Democrats as the bad guys, judging by my Facebook feed. Mental.

Phil_aka_Pip

Axe_meister said:

I sure do hate the republicans

Especially those that read kids books out during debate time to delay a conclusion

chillidoggy

I've been watching this unfold.

What is comical is the majority of the TV news is still focused on adverts, celebrities, some old woman's cat stuck up a tree, and whether they'll be any thunderstorms this afternoon.

As for the political aspect, people are still dying to get here, Obamacare or not, so I guess it can't be that bad. The politicos are as bad as each other, the Demos could have agreed to the delay, or the Repubs could have compromised, both would have defused the situation. But they BOTH chose not to back down.

ICBM

Yes, but there can be different degrees of being obstructive even when both sides won't budge.

Many years ago a friend of mine was driving a large truck along one of those single-lane-with-passing-places roads we love so much up here. She (that may be the crucial point) had gone way past a passing place and was just approaching the next one, when a car coming the other way with a man in it drove *past* the passing space and stopped in front of her. He then proceeded to get very irate and insist that she back up. She didn't - in fact she simply turned the engine off and waited. After apparently a very long time, he eventually backed up the short distance into the passing space and both could then go on their way. Who was being more obstructive?

Myranda

I've been in a situation where it seemed the driver in front of me wanted me to back up - in spite of not having a reverse gear and there being at least 4 cars behind me and none behind him... so I put my side stand down and turned my engine off. Eventually he started to back up. I was still on my side of the road (bike fits into the gap twixt parked cars and center line) he'd pulled into the middle of the road to get in my way. Now you could argue I was being belligerent, but then I'm on a vehicle with no reverse, and would need to co-ordinate with 4 other drivers, he could have just realised he was being a douche and reversed right away.

As for America - point and laugh at their funny system all you like... but remember, a (primarily) american banking/stock market kerfuffle lead the world into the financial snafu we've been in these past few years... so the current shut down in an extreme case could screw us all over again. As such, I suggest that the rest of the world, under the banner of the UN invade America and force a regime change. Clearly the United States of America is incapable of governing itself and this has caused untold economic strife through the rest of the world, added to its terrible track record of bombing any country it doesn't like while giving tacit approval to some of the more evil regimes across Africa because of cheap natural resources has resulted in a situation the world should no longer stand for!  For too long the privileged US has attempted to rule the world through economic might while smugly pointing fingers at any other nation who attempts to rule any other parcel of land. They claim to be bringing democracy to the Iraq, and to Afghanistan - if this is the result of their democracy what hope do the people of these countries have? Down with the faux democracy that america is forcing upon the world, down with a country that pollutes our world with their Miley Cyrus and their Kanye West, and their cars which are a mile wide and get half a gallon to the mile! Viva la World!

digitalscream

Myranda said:

As for America - point and laugh at their funny system all you like... but remember, a (primarily) american banking/stock market kerfuffle lead the world into the financial snafu we've been in these past few years... so the current shut down in an extreme case could screw us all over again. As such, I suggest that the rest of the world, under the banner of the UN invade America and force a regime change. Clearly the United States of America is incapable of governing itself and this has caused untold economic strife through the rest of the world, added to its terrible track record of bombing any country it doesn't like while giving tacit approval to some of the more evil regimes across Africa because of cheap natural resources has resulted in a situation the world should no longer stand for!  For too long the privileged US has attempted to rule the world through economic might while smugly pointing fingers at any other nation who attempts to rule any other parcel of land. They claim to be bringing democracy to the Iraq, and to Afghanistan - if this is the result of their democracy what hope do the people of these countries have? Down with the faux democracy that america is forcing upon the world, down with a country that pollutes our world with their Miley Cyrus and their Kanye West, and their cars which are a mile wide and get half a gallon to the mile! Viva la World!

I think I love you.

stickyfiddle

I suspect the Republicans are doing it not just because they don't fancy all the Obamacare stuff, but because they want the American people to see that life goes on pretty much ok if all the public services shut down, and therefore the size of all that public stuff should be drastically reduced and taxation cut aaccordingly. I agree with that sentiment, but it's a big risk in doing it in such a visible way. 

digitalscream

stickyfiddle said:

I suspect the Republicans are doing it not just because they don't fancy all the Obamacare stuff, but because they want the American people to see that life goes on pretty much ok if all the public services shut down, and therefore the size of all that public stuff should be drastically reduced and taxation cut aaccordingly. I agree with that sentiment, but it's a big risk in doing it in such a visible way. 

The part I find most interesting is that the Republicans are (generally) the most vocal in terms of the "BURN THE TERRORISTS!!!!!" approach...yet they're basically holding the entire country to ransom over an ideological disagreement.

I don't think they see the irony.

stickyfiddle

digitalscream said:

stickyfiddle said:

I suspect the Republicans are doing it not just because they don't fancy all the Obamacare stuff, but because they want the American people to see that life goes on pretty much ok if all the public services shut down, and therefore the size of all that public stuff should be drastically reduced and taxation cut aaccordingly. I agree with that sentiment, but it's a big risk in doing it in such a visible way. 

The part I find most interesting is that the Republicans are (generally) the most vocal in terms of the "BURN THE TERRORISTS!!!!!" approach...yet they're basically holding the entire country to ransom over an ideological disagreement.

I don't think they see the irony.

I don't think they even understand irony.. 

 EDIT: Fixed yer quote (DS)

VimFuego

well, as the biggest single part of US spending is on defence (including HLS etc.) which was, in 2010, over 1 trillion I suspect there won't be much appetite for tax cuts (except for the mega wealthy, obviously).

 

EDIT: and not let's forget, the US is printing $85 billion a month in off balance sheet money creation, the yanks seem to have little issue with big govt and big govt spending.

ICBM

stickyfiddle said:

I suspect the Republicans are doing it not just because they don't fancy all the Obamacare stuff, but because they want the American people to see that life goes on pretty much ok if all the public services shut down, and therefore the size of all that public stuff should be drastically reduced and taxation cut aaccordingly. I agree with that sentiment, but it's a big risk in doing it in such a visible way. 

I think the exact opposite - and that Obama has decided to let them find out what happens without proper government.

PolarityMan

ICBM said:

Yes, but there can be different degrees of being obstructive even when both sides won't budge.

Many years ago a friend of mine was driving a large truck along one of those single-lane-with-passing-places roads we love so much up here. She (that may be the crucial point) had gone way past a passing place and was just approaching the next one, when a car coming the other way with a man in it drove *past* the passing space and stopped in front of her. He then proceeded to get very irate and insist that she back up. She didn't - in fact she simply turned the engine off and waited. After apparently a very long time, he eventually backed up the short distance into the passing space and both could then go on their way. Who was being more obstructive?

They were both being equally obstructive up until the point where the guy backed out into the passing space, at which point he was no longer an obstruction but the other lady was still an obstruction and hence she was probably being obstructive for longer which is one way of defining more obstructive.

Alternatively..who had the bigger car?

stickyfiddle

ICBM said:

stickyfiddle said:

I suspect the Republicans are doing it not just because they don't fancy all the Obamacare stuff, but because they want the American people to see that life goes on pretty much ok if all the public services shut down, and therefore the size of all that public stuff should be drastically reduced and taxation cut aaccordingly. I agree with that sentiment, but it's a big risk in doing it in such a visible way. 

I think the exact opposite - and that Obama has decided to let them find out what happens without proper government.

Only one way to find out who's right!

http://media.metalhammer.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Harry-Hill-Fight-AP-WDC5.jpg

chillidoggy

I distrust politicians of every flavour, and the US issue does nothing to change my views. They're equally to blame.

octatonic

chillidoggy said:

I distrust politicians of every flavour, and the US issue does nothing to change my views. They're equally to blame.

That is lazy thinking.

It is a popular position though, but amongst lazy thinkers.

Evilmags

As long as they don't default on their debt the world will go on. Obama does not have Clinton's charisma or luck with the economy and is deeply unpopular with large swathes of mainstream America due to. NSA spying on US citizens. Obamacare is seen by the middle classes as pushing up healthcare costs and substituting "excellent" for mediocre and it is not popular. The fact it makes insurance compulsory runs against the grain of the US's founding principles also annoys many. I suspect most people will notice that without FEDERAL government life goes on. And of course, as Vim would concur with, the military industrial complex will still get paid...

ICBM

Evilmags said:

Obama does not have Clinton's ability to bullshit charm his way out of any setback and is deeply unpopular with large swathes of mainstream America due to being black

Edited for accuracy .

Axe_meister

If the republicans want to get back into power they need to drop the religious right. If they want to to be taken seriously by the rest of the world even more so

chillidoggy

octatonic said:

chillidoggy said:

I distrust politicians of every flavour, and the US issue does nothing to change my views. They're equally to blame.

That is lazy thinking.

It is a popular position though, but amongst lazy thinkers.

That's fine, because I'm a lazy twat.

Evilmags

ICBM;46706" said:

Evilmags said:

Obama does not have Clinton's ability to bullshit charm his way out of any setback and is deeply unpopular with large swathes of mainstream America due to being black





Edited for accuracy .

I suspect the wrong colour bit is more about the fact he's too red.