Are slow drivers dangerous?

Cirrus

There will always be people that want to go faster or slower than you, and to them you're either a bumbling old moron or a psychopathic speed demon. Usually I'll do what I can to let people do what they want to do.

One thing I will say - in my experience, getting annoyed at slightly slower drivers and overtaking is almost always a total waste of time off the motorway unless you're passing a genuinely slow vehicle like a tractor doing 15mph. In 90% of cases, if a car overtakes you on a country road you'll find them directly in front of you at the next junction, or stuck behind the lorry that was just round the next bend. For the bother of it and potential risks, I just can't see how it's worth it.

Fatfingers

I think driving standards are getting steadily worse, and the reason is similar to the problems ion the education system - people are being taught to pass a test rather than think about what they're doing. That's why people drive along at 40mph in a 60 zone then continue doing 40 when they hit a 30 zone. And why they drive along in a silver car in thick fog with no lights on (not helped by those stupid running lights cars now come with). 

I was recently on the A34 heading north. Although I often cruise at 80mph I always move left when possible. It was a clear, bright day with light traffic. I came over the brow of a hill and there was an old chap in a Rover (obviously) doing 35mph. I had to brake hard to avoid hitting him and couldn't go round him as people were passing me in the outside lane.

I cursed him. But too be fair, I should have slowed down before the brow.

english_bob

mike_l said:

I worked with a guy who was prosecuted for driving too slowly, 40 on a motorway, in clear conditions.

Wow. I used to commute regularly to Coventry from Leicester on the M69 and used to regularly encounter the same driver doing 45 in otherwise clear conditions and reasonably light traffic travelling at the speed limit. Nothing more frightening than proceeding with the perfectly reasonable assumption that other drivers have the good sense to travel at or near the posted speed limit, only to find that the gap between you and the car in front is closing really fucking fast. I noticed that I passed her at about the same point on my route each day, so I could leave plenty of time to get out of the left lane before I had to slow down to match her or plough in to the back of her.

Now I get what Sticky and others are saying about how good driving is about anticipating possible hazards, but you have to balance the possibility of something happening against how likely it is. I don't brake when I see a cow in a field next to the road because it might run out in front of the car, or assume that every other driver on the road is pissed, high and playing Angry Birds at the wheel. You just can't function as a driver without assuming that the majority of other road users are fallible, but generally decent drivers who are as keen as you are to get where they're going alive. If you over-"anticipate" potential hazards you become the "phantom braker" that several posters have mentioned.

 That's what makes slow drivers dangerous, particularly on motorways- they're not something you're likely to encounter very often, they're not immediately apparent as a hazard since it takes a few seconds to assess your relative speed and react, but the consequences of failing to react promptly could be catastrophic.

Fatfingers

I agree. I often see trucks, limited to 56mph, slowly overtaking cars on the motorway. You have to ask yourself what, if anything, is going through the minds of these car drivers. Any modernish car is easily capable of doing 70mph safely, so if the trucks are going past you, what are you doing?

boogieman

english_bob;488290" said:

Wow. I used to commute regularly to Coventry from Leicester on the M69 and used to regularly encounter the same driver doing 45 in otherwise clear conditions and reasonably light traffic travelling at the speed limit. Nothing more frightening than proceeding with the perfectly reasonable assumption that other drivers have the good sense to travel at or near the posted speed limit, only to find that the gap between you and the car in front is closing really fucking fast. I noticed that I passed her at about the same point on my route each day, so I could leave plenty of time to get out of the left lane before I had to slow down to match her or plough in to the back of her.

Now I get what Sticky and others are saying about how good driving is about anticipating possible hazards, but you have to balance the possibility of something happening against how likely it is. I don't brake when I see a cow in a field next to the road because it might run out in front of the car, or assume that every other driver on the road is pissed, high and playing Angry Birds at the wheel. You just can't function as a driver without assuming that the majority of other road users are fallible, but generally decent drivers who are as keen as you are to get where they're going alive. If you over-"anticipate" potential hazards you become the "phantom braker" that several posters have mentioned.

 That's what makes slow drivers dangerous, particularly on motorways- they're not something you're likely to encounter very often, they're not immediately apparent as a hazard since it takes a few seconds to assess your relative speed and react, but the consequences of failing to react promptly could be catastrophic.

Yes, this. ^. Wisdom awarded.

mike_l

english_bob said:

mike_l said:

I worked with a guy who was prosecuted for driving too slowly, 40 on a motorway, in clear conditions.

Wow. I used to commute regularly to Coventry from Leicester on the M69 and used to regularly encounter the same driver doing 45 in otherwise clear conditions and reasonably light traffic travelling at the speed limit. Nothing more frightening than proceeding with the perfectly reasonable assumption that other drivers have the good sense to travel at or near the posted speed limit, only to find that the gap between you and the car in front is closing really fucking fast.

He also refused to go at more than 20 on the 60 limit road between Fenstanton and St.Ives. Right to the point his neighbour used to makes sure he left 5 mins before him to make sure he didn't get held up in the queue behind him.

Roland

Yesterday I was doing 30 through a 30 limit. The car behind indicated his impatience, and eventually passed me on the wrong side of a blind bend at about 50. Should I have acceded to his bullying and pulled over? Last week I was nursing a car with a faulty water pump to the garage at no more than 30 although the limit went up to 50. If someone had been inconvenienced would I have pulled over?  A couple of years ago I had an automatic gearbox fail on a Jag. It defaults to 2nd gear. I rang the garage from the car, they said to bring it in straight away, and to use the motorway to put less strain on the gearbox and engine. You don't go very fast in 2nd. Should I have asked the AA to collect me?  Last year I had a chest pain while driving along a dual carriage way.  Was I in total control of the car whilst driving a mile or so to get off the road?  It's not just about slow speeds. The day my wife went into advanced labour on the M6 I did a "little" over 70 getting her to hospital.

My point is that we don't know what the other driver is contending with.  Mechanical, medical, social, or just plain incompetence. My pet hate is drivers who approach a speed camera, panic, and jam the anchors on to about 10 mph below the limit.  It's still my fault if I drive into them.  

Cirrus

Fatfingers said:

I agree. I often see trucks, limited to 56mph, slowly overtaking cars on the motorway. You have to ask yourself what, if anything, is going through the minds of these car drivers. Any modernish car is easily capable of doing 70mph safely, so if the trucks are going past you, what are you doing?

I frequently do ~60mph on the motorway. Saves money (around £40/month) vs doing the usual 75 because it makes that much difference to fuel economy. And that for maybe 10 more minutes on my hour's commute and an overall sense that I'm not struggling through constantly breaking/ accellerating traffic in the fast lane - I arrive more relaxed at the other end.

Not all lorries are accurately speed-limited. Sometimes a lorry doing like, 60.2 mph will decide to overtake me. In that instance, am I the baddie? The lorry driver must be able to work out it'll take him 20 miles to get past me and there's a hill coming up anyway. So he chooses to overtake me for the sake of like 2 seconds off his journey and to the inconvenience of hundreds of cars stacking up behind him in the middle lane - most of them getting angry at me.

So despite my principled belief that I have every right to do 60 if I want to and shouldn't be bullied into going faster, and furthermore that the lorry driver is definitely the one who's decided to overtake for much greater cost to those around him than he'll benefit from the whole endeavor, I always punch out of cruise control and slow down a few mph to let them past quickly.

chillidoggy

I'm not entirely convinced that standards of driving are getting worse. I reckon it's the same percentage of twats on the road, it's just that there's so many more cars, hence the increase in the number of twats.

mike_l

Roland said:

My pet hate is drivers who approach a speed camera, panic, and jam the anchors on to about 10 mph below the limit.  It's still my fault if I drive into them.  

I was on the A14 (dual carriageway) one saturday, on my way into work, and the bloke infront , in the outside lane, approached the speed camera at 60, got to the camera and jammed his anchors on, and crawled past at 25, still in the outside lane, with the inside lane clear.

WezV

Fatfingers said:

I think driving standards are getting steadily worse, and the reason is similar to the problems ion the education system - people are being taught to pass a test rather than think about what they're doing. That's why people drive along at 40mph in a 60 zone then continue doing 40 when they hit a 30 zone. And why they drive along in a silver car in thick fog with no lights on (not helped by those stupid running lights cars now come with). 

 

I only passed my test a few years ago (first attempt, 1 minor) and the focus was always very much on getting up to the speed limit.  You would not pass by going significantly slower without good reason.  I think they were fine with 10-15 miles under the limit on a winding country road with a national limit, but going 10-15 under on a dual carriageway would not have been accepted.  you would certainly not pass by going 40 in a 30 zone.   Its pretty much the way I have driven since

 

Just before i took my test they introduced the indepedant driving section (i.e. follow the road signs to this destination).  It specifically designed to prevent the things you mention.  The learner needs to focus on signs and conditions to make the right choice, rather than the traditional test  which focused on following in the moment directions.   My minor was from being in the wrong lane during this section of the test, even though I realised myself and got into the right lane safely, with plenty of time to spare. 

 

With a lot more sections to it, and the increased number of vehicles on the road, I believe the test is harder than its ever been

 

But we all know you don't learn to drive properly until after your test finishes and you are by yourself.  This is when the bad habits creep in.

 

ESBlonde

I have become aware over the years that not every driver still retains their abilities for the whole of their driving career.
For instance (and not picking on old folks) some old folks have vision problems especially in poor light conditions. They might have spent decades driving when the roads were different and certainly vehicles were less safe or capable so are not conditioned to 'modern' driving.
Some people are arrogant behind the wheel but seemingly reasonable enough in all other situations. Likewise some become belligerent when drunk but at no other time.
The slow driver may have recently had an incident that caused them to reassess their driving style (maybe for a while anyway). it could be that just before you pulled up behind them a child/dear/cat/doc/football appeared in the road right in front of them.
The driver may be feeling 'under the weather' and is proceeding with caution.
Just because we have a very capable safety concious comfortable car doesn't mean that a) it must be used at the highest speed. b) every other vehicle or road user has the same capability. c) lack of planning on your part constitutes an issue for other road users.

That said, slow traffic can be fekkin annoying sometimes.

menamestom

 

Yesterday I hired a 1.4l normally aspirated Vauxhall Astra.  I drove too slowly all day.

 

Cirrus

menamestom said:

 

Yesterday I hired a 1.4l normally aspirated Vauxhall Astra.  I drove too slowly all day.

 

I had a similar experience on monday with a little Aygo courtesy car - its hard to find the biting point when the engine's not got any teeth.

WezV

menamestom said:

 

Yesterday I hired a 1.4l normally aspirated Vauxhall Astra.  I drove too slowly all day.

 

Thats my issue at the moment.  Drove to France last year closely following my mate in his BMW.  The poor accelaration on the Astra became very noticeable at every junction.

BenSirAmos

Learning to drive doesn't have to stop when you pass your driving test. You can get advanced tuition - and this will help you to improve your confidence and drive in a way that is appropriate to road conditions. 

http://www.iam.org.uk/

menamestom

WezV said:

menamestom said:

 

Yesterday I hired a 1.4l normally aspirated Vauxhall Astra.  I drove too slowly all day.

 

Thats my issue at the moment.  Drove to France last year closely following my mate in his BMW.  The poor accelaration on the Astra became very noticeable at every junction.

It was a nice car, but gutless and not great on fuel.  I've just sent an insignia back that was 160bhp, not a lot but overtaking was brisk enough.

I have just bought a 1l  3 cylinder ecoboost Cmax for my wife, had a test drive and although it's only 125bhp, the engine weighs very little and it actually moves okay.

 

Cirrus said:

menamestom said:

 

Yesterday I hired a 1.4l normally aspirated Vauxhall Astra.  I drove too slowly all day.

 

I had a similar experience on monday with a little Aygo courtesy car - its hard to find the biting point when the engine's not got any teeth.

It didn't even have gums this one.....

WezV

BenSirAmos said:

Learning to drive doesn't have to stop when you pass your driving test. You can get advanced tuition - and this will help you to improve your confidence and drive in a way that is appropriate to road conditions. 

http://www.iam.org.uk/

but how many do?

For me it was not an option as the cost of lessons and test had left me pretty much broke and any spare money was going towards a car.   Even if you do it, there will still be that first time you are driving by yourselfwhere you really start to learn without a safety net

Axe_meister

menamestom said:

 

Yesterday I hired a 1.4l normally aspirated Vauxhall Astra.  I drove too slowly all day.

 

But hire cars are the fastest cars in the universe

RaymondLin

It all depends on the road and conditions.

On the motorway, on the inside lane you really ought to be doing 60mph + like most lorrys.  The key here though is get up to speed when joining, it is extremely dangerous joinging at 40mph, much saver to join at 60mph.  The key is keep with the flow of traffic, if everyone is doing 70mph, do 70mph.  You have a licence, which mean you should be capable of doing that speed, turning yourself as an obstruction is a fault in the driving test.  Going too slow is dangerous and a major fail so you really ought to lose your licence.

Same goes with country lanes.  You drive to the conditions.  On a clear dry day, the roads are straight, even though it is a country lane.  Do the national speed limit, or the limit of the road.  I detest drivers who does 40mph when it is 60mph if the weather allows it.  I don't think they should be driving at all.  Strangely enough, these drivers will also do 40mph when going through a village with a 30mph sign.  It shows they pay absolutely no attention to the road around them and drive in their own bubble at a speed they are comfortable with.  These people ought to have their licences revoked because it shows they are paying no attention to the surroundings and are dangerous to others.

I have no problem with drives who does 10% under.  Happy to follow them, or if they are pulling a trailer or a caravan, doing 40mph at 60mph I can understand.  What I don't is when they drive a modern hatchback that is under 3 years old. clearly the car is capable of going 60mph, yet they don't.

They key to tell they are going far too slow to the condition?

When a massive articulated lorry catches up behind and the little car is the one holding it up.  If a lorry can navigate the same road faster than they can safely.  Then the driver at the front has no excuse, at all.