¿? ¿? ~ 1x12 or 2x12 ~ open-back or closed-back ~ ¿? ¿?

ChrisMusic

What are the differences in sound and performance between 1x12 and 2x12 cabs ?  In singles or multiples ?

Educate me please, about the general characteristics, including directional response and the ability to fill a room.

What about the same question on performance, with regard to open back or closed back cabs, or even the Theile or large volume "FatBoy" types.

It seems rude to exclude either 10" speakers, or the monster 4x12s from this discussion, so whilst it would be interesting to hear your perspectives and comparisons, I am most interested in 1x12 and 2x12 cabs right now.

Thanks for your help  

p90fool

Never mind all that, how did you do that thing with the question marks?

p90fool

( . Y . )

DesVegas

@p90fool i would imagine using the character map on his computer .. now answer his goddamn question

randomhandclaps

My mum doesn't like me using closed back cabs because she can't put my flask and sandwiches in them when I go to band rehearsal, then she worries.

Nerine

If you peruse Google and probably most good guitar sites, I'd imagine all the info is laid out for you somewhere.
This is a massive topic and an also a very subjective one.
Not all cabs, even in the same configuration sound similar. They vary a lot.
Some things to Google are:

Open back vs closed back
Front loaded vs rear loaded
Ported vs non ported
Oversize vs traditional/normal
Horizontal or vertical
Materials used, speakers used
Grille type/material
Cabinet ohmage
Gauge of wire used etc

Etc etc.

Alternatively, go and try some out.
A cab is one of the most difficult things to judge from descriptions IMO.

Some people think the 1960a 4x12 with 75w G12 T's in it sound good. I think they are horrifically ghastly.

Some cabs also are more directional than others. It's mainly due to speakers used and construction.

Open backed cabs often disperse a little more sound elsewhere other than straight forwards, so can sometimes sound a bit less directional and give you more spread.
The open back design also then means less thump and resonance from the cabinet though. Notes won't punch quite as hard as some of the energy the speaker produces will be dissipated towards the rear exit of the cabinet and the front, rather than a closed back design which mainly throws sound forwards.

Generally a 2x12 will sound better than a 1x12 and so on and so forth.

"Better" in this sense loosely meaning more lows, more coverage, larger spread, more apparent volume, thicker sound, more balanced etc etc.

It's a hard job to find a 1x12 cabinet that doesn't just sound like a boxy piece of crap, but they are out there.
Bogner Cubes
Boogie Widebody etc etc. And many others.
But the cheaper ones will sound mostly small and shitty; like your sound has had a high and low pass filter applied to it.

That said, there's plenty of great sounding 1x12 combos and cabs that DO work well and sound good.

So yeah, relative/subjective again.

2x12 I find to be a happy medium.
That's my favourite size.
I like good closed back ones with Vintage 30 speakers.

Mesa Rectifier 2x12
Orange PPC212

All often get touted as being the better 2x12 cabs you can get.

Aside from the more high end stuff from
Bogner, Diezel, Friedman, Dr Z, Two Rock, Mills, Suhr etc etc.

Most of their cabs 2x12 or otherwise sound great/as good as a 4x12.

I run a Bogner OS 2x12 with Vintage 30 speakers and it sounds fantastic.

Sassafras

All I know is that I prefer open back cabs. They sound more open and airy with a brighter sound.

Closed backs are more directional and always sound darker to me and at worst,nasal sounding.

Nerine

Also the style of music you play and where you play it and what amp you use will also have an impact on the best choice of cabinet.

ChrisMusic

@p90fool said:

Never mind all that, how did you do that thing with the question marks?

Cool huh  

If I spill the beans, everyone will be playing using it   :P

Well just between you and me, it is part of the european character set, used in Spanish, and probably other languages to, to preface a question. 

¿ I think that is a great idea, non ?

Anyhoo ~ on my Mac it is Shift-Alt-?

Maynehead

2x12s are more directional than 1x12, due to destructive interference from the 2 speakers. However you can get round this somewhat by standing the speaker vertically on its side.

Generally a 1x12 is enough for small gigs, so unless you need the volume I wouldn't get something massive as any minor improvements in tone will be outweighed by the pain of dragging the damn thing around all the time.

As for open/closed back, the general consensus is that open sounds more "natural" and closed sounds "tighter" so it depends on the type of music you want to play.

ChrisMusic

Thanks to @Nerine & @Sassafras & @Maynehead, for answers not including sandwiches.  It is subjective I know, but there is also good hard acoustic science behind it too, with a sprinkle of fairy dust for mojo.

Guitar cabs are a foreign country to me.  The more answers I can get here the better, I did ask for perspectives with that in mind.  It is always interesting to view the world through other peoples eyes, and to try to hear it through their ears, and understand more of it through their experience.  It all helps to scale the learning curve.  With a little help from my friends  

@randomhandclaps, you know that @Danny1969 uses his cab for storing beers, but your mum might not like that, and there is nothing worse than being grounded in the middle of a European tour...

randomhandclaps

ChrisMusic said:

@randomhandclaps, you know that @Danny1969 uses his cab for storing beers, but your mum might not like that, and there is nothing worse than being grounded in the middle of a European tour...

You are correct sir.  If it wasn't for my dislike of warm beer Danny would be a certified genius in my eyes.

ICBM

Maynehead said:

2x12s are more directional than 1x12, due to destructive interference from the 2 speakers.

In theory, yes. In practice it doesn't seem to work like that, particularly with open-back cabs. A 2x12" will have a less focused sound and fills a room much better than a 1x12" usually, even when set horizontally.

Cab size also seems to make a difference. There's a surprising difference between front-loaded and rear-loaded speakers too, even though there's only the thickness of the baffle difference - front-loaded is noticeably more directional.

Some of the most directional amps ever are the little Boogie 1x12"s with a front-loaded speaker in a small cab. Like a sonic searchlight…

With proper acoustic design - rather than just sticking drivers in a conveniently-sized box, which is what most guitar cabs are! - then the physics does apply much more accurately, which is why PA cabs are set up in tall arrays.

Closed-back 4x12"s can be quite directional too - the four speakers in a square seems to add more pattern reinforcement than you would expect compared to two side by side or vertically.

Maynehead

ICBM said:

In theory, yes. In practice it doesn't seem to work like that, particularly with open-back cabs. A 2x12" will have a less focused sound and fills a room much better than a 1x12" usually, even when set horizontally.

In my band I have a closed back 2x12 and the other guitarist uses an open back 1x12 combo. Mine is like a laser beam whereas his is more open and room filling. Whether that is due to the closed back or the destructive interference I can't really say.

ICBM

Maynehead said:

In my band I have a closed back 2x12 and the other guitarist uses an open back 1x12 combo. Mine is like a laser beam whereas his is more open and room filling. Whether that is due to the closed back or the destructive interference I can't really say.

I'd guess more likely the closed back.

I went from an open-back (rear-loaded, and not that small either) 1x12" to a similar 2x12" and noticed a big improvement in lack of directionality, even though the 1x12" wasn't too bad usually - although it was much worse on big stages with nothing behind it, whereas the 2x12" doesn't seem to suffer from that.

I do understand the physics and why a side-by-side 2x12" *should* be (counterintuitively) more directional, too!

I think it can depend on the type of amp and tone, as well - mid-focused sounds seem to be inherently more directional than more scooped ones. My 2x12" is deeper and less middy than the 1x12" was.

(I've noticed it with a lot of other amps too, not just these ones.)

ADP

You can get the upside down question marks on an iPhone or iPad by holding your finger on the question mark. It works for all alternative characters. Just to complete the story, in Spanish it only goes before the question part, so it'd be: I think that's a great idea, ¿isn't it?

ChrisMusic said:

?Well just between you and me, it is part of the european character set, used in Spanish, and probably other languages to, to preface a question. 

¿ I think that is a great idea, non ?

Anyhoo ~ on my Mac it is Shift-Alt-?

xscaramanga

I have a conventional-wisdom defying Zilla 1x12 cab. It's in a 2x12 width cab, so that I can put a full-sized head on it, but it only has one centrally mounted Vintage 30. It's open back (although it's just a small gap between two rear panels, not a massively open space like an open-backed combo). When I ordered it, I had no idea if it would sound good but I wanted something light. I've always thought it sounds great, and when I've used it on recordings for other people, they've been happy with my tone. I even did a metal session in drop C# tuning and it was tight enough (although it was a fairly classic tone, not a super-tight modern metal one). 

Zilla cabs often get rave reviews. I don't know if my cab sounds good because Zillas are exceptional, or if wide-bodied open-back 1x12s are just really underrated. 

ChrisMusic

Thanks @ADP, I didn't know that.

ChrisMusic

So what should I expect from a Zilla's Fat Boy & oversized cabs, or the Mesa ones ?

ChrisMusic

or the Theile design, or other ported types ?

ICBM

ChrisMusic said:

So what should I expect from a Zilla's Fat Boy & oversized cabs, or the Mesa ones ?

From the Mesa you should expect a decent cabinet, and an intense burning pain in the wallet area.