Offensive

Drew_TNBD

bertie

yes that tie is horrendous

Emp_Fab

I love Stephen Fry.  I wish more people were like him.

monquixote

Emp_Fab said:

I love Stephen Fry.  I wish more people were like him.

but then how would you tell which one was really stephen fry?

Jalapeno

Plus Stephen Fry's delivery is usually erudite and seemingly very well considered.

Drew_TNBD

"Well so fucking what?"

Aye. Erudite and well considered indeed!

Jalapeno

Clearly considered and for maximum effect - he doesn't swear normally.

VimFuego

from memory, that clip is a reference to people who take offence. Wasn't it something to do with a bunch of Christians being offended by a book or other that was critical of organised religion and Christianity and out forwards themes like evolution etc? So, the book wasn't offensive, these people (that Fry is referring to) took offense. There is a difference between being offensive and someone taking offense.

viz

Classic facepalm at 3:17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPZed8af9RI

 

frankus

VimFuego said:

There is a difference between being offensive and someone taking offense.

Yes there is - being offensive means someonev else finds your existence offensive, whereas someone taking offense is someone finding something or someone's existence offensive.

If you mean "behaving in a manner intended to offend" that's called "deliberately trying someone's patience" if their patience fails then they'll take the invitation to be offended and the provoker has got what he wanted.. unless the provoked person wanted an excuse to escalate the issue into a confrontation - at which point they've both got what they wanted, both know that and are both very annoyed that the other has got what he wanted. Thankfully the profound implications of finding a play-mate in someone you dislike, doing something you dislike can be disorientating so is generally ignored with consumate ease by most humans.

RobDavies

So racism is ok now because Stephen Fry says "so fucking what" if you're offended by it?

Or have I missed the point entirely?

Drew_TNBD

RobDavies said:

So racism is ok now because Stephen Fry says "so fucking what" if you're offended by it?

Or have I missed the point entirely?

You've missed the point spectacularly Rob.

The point is that it is fine to be offended, indeed it is your right to be offended - by anything... could be racism, sexism, rude jokes, or when someone uses a crude word in a conversation about amplifiers that you deem unecessary.

But it doesn't give you any special privilege. You cannot stiffle someone else because of your offense. You do not have that right. Being offended is not some special state of being, whereby the mere utterance of your offense should cause the world to bend to your whim. Being offended is simply an invitation to yourself, to leave the room, change the channel, close the thread, or otherwise avert your gaze from that which has caused you offense.

It does not give you the right to dose it in flames and throw a zippo lighter at it.

Myranda

RobDavies said:

So racism is ok now because Stephen Fry says "so fucking what" if you're offended by it?

Or have I missed the point entirely?

No.

On the one hand, some things people choose to take offense over. A book that criticises your favourite book, is probably going to annoy you - so don't read it, if you do, it's your choice to take offense at it.

Calling someone a coon and spitting in their face IS OFFENSIVE even if Frankus would apparently class it as "deliberately trying someone's patience"  

Writing a book about some facts you've learned that MIGHT cause offense is a "so fucking what" moment. So I agree on his sentiment on that. Making attempts to deliberately degrade, denigrate or upset should be considered offensive.

In my view it's all about intent - Drew got facepalmed in what appeared to be a deliberate attempt to provoke and upset him. I know I gave him a fair few facepalms when he commented in threads in ways I thought were daft, but someone(s) sought him out to wind him up. The only intention was to provoke/upset/degrade - which isn't following rule number 1

Stephen Fry has himself taken offense at the Russian attitude towards homosexuality, and might not be happy if his letter to the PM got a "so fucking what" reply.

So while I might be all achey and bunged up and stuffs I think I can see that there's a line between deliberately being offensive and saying something that might be offensive and someone seeking to take offense at it

Jalapeno

Perfect explanation ^^^^^ have a Wisdom !

frankus

The point is offense isn't a genuine emotion - rather it's a counter emotion to conceal the honest emotion. (which all button-pushers know and are laughing at as their victim play-acts..)

someone doesn't share your opinion of a book - you might feel discounted, confused, surprised.. etc
someone dislikes the racial minority - you might feel scared, rejected, isolated.... etc

those are the real emotions, and there are well over a hundred words to describe them and their unique nuances and their usefulness isn't restricted to eloquence.

someone slates a book and you are surprised... you get angry and shout at them "you don't know what you're talking about" - when the anger has abated, in time your mind sifts through stuff and you might muse "I was really surprised they didn't like ..." what a waste of time and emotions, just be surprised and get to "I was really surprised they didn't like ..." without the needless drama and negativity.

Offense is the refusal to consider what it is you're feeling, it's emotional immaturity - fine to be duped by once, bt a second time you should be wise to it... but no, some people like being defined by their weaknesses - Marty McFly didn't like being called a chicken - it offended him, gave him an excuse to be violent.

It's called "collecting stamps" someone calls him chicken enough he's got enough stamps to punch them in the face... He feels he needs to collect justifications to do what he wants - punch people in the face.

Offense show the owner has a hidden agenda, which is an emotion they don't totally control.

GuitarMonkey

Myranda said:

Stephen Fry has himself taken offense at the Russian attitude towards homosexuality, and might not be happy if his letter to the PM got a "so fucking what" reply.

So while I might be all achey and bunged up and stuffs I think I can see that there's a line between deliberately being offensive and saying something that might be offensive and someone seeking to take offense at it

There is a huge difference between saying something deemed offensive and discrimination causing actual harm to people, which is what is happening in Russia.

frankus

Exactly, that's the difference between offensive and abusive.

RobDavies

Drew_fx said:

RobDavies said:

So racism is ok now because Stephen Fry says "so fucking what" if you're offended by it?

Or have I missed the point entirely?

Good job for both of us that the Facepalm has been removed then...

RobDavies

I think I get it now.

Is this like when my youngest has a letter sent home from school saying that Friday the 24th is dress down day, and you can all wear Halloween costumes.  Then the following day, another letter comes home saying that the school don't want to offend people who don't celebrate Halloween, thus the dress down day has to be Autumn themed instead?

So fucking what if people are offended by Halloween.....!

Drew_TNBD

Groanage. They're talking as if Halloween is some sort of religious thing... I guess it is for fat people who love candy. teeeeheeee.

randomhandclaps

RobDavies said:

I think I get it now.

Is this like when my youngest has a letter sent home from school saying that Friday the 24th is dress down day, and you can all wear Halloween costumes.  Then the following day, another letter comes home saying that the school don't want to offend people who don't celebrate Halloween, thus the dress down day has to be Autumn themed instead?

So fucking what if people are offended by Halloween.....!

Each year we organise a Halloween disco at the kid's school which they love.  Last year we were told we couldn't refer to it as a Halloween disco because it offended 'A' parent.  Yes, so fucking what indeed.  This year's one is tonight - moved earlier - for concern that it may even be seen as a Halloween disco.  The kids will all still come as either Spiderman, a princess or the cast of the living dead.

The thing is some people just want to find offence in stuff, it's a sign of intolerance and they are ironically usually the most inadvertently offensive people you can meet.  Nothing offend them more than saying 'So what?, can you explain why exactly it bothers you?' - very rarely do they offer an explanation beyond them personally finding it offensive yet we are forced to bend to them.