JFK: The Smoking Gun

Skipped

Just watched this 2013 documentary which I found on usenet. I have also just read the book Mortal Error on which the film is based.
Let's just say.... it is an "interesting" theory which was the result of a lifetime of research from Howard Donahue, who seems to be a credible ballistics expert.
The jist is that the fatal shot:
Did not come from Oswald
Did not come from the Grassy Knoll
It came from.....  :-O

Here is a clip with the reveal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=269NiovMgrs

Gassage

Oh yeah? Bollocks.

Magneto bent the trajectory of the bullet. Wolverine sprang him from jail for doing so so fuck your fancy dan theories...

Skipped

If your intention was to post on the Magic Bullet thread.....it looks like your Fancy Dan browser let you down.

fastboy

I wondered if it was going to be the recent conspiracy I read that the fatal shot was fired by a shooter in a storm drain on the side of the road.

It's plausible as the shooter wouldn't be able to get any closer, wouldn't be seen and would have an unimpedded getaway.

TinLip

Ooh! I'm going to be in Dallas this weekend and am staying 2 blocks from where he was shot.
Want any photos or validation of facts?
@Skipped.

Skipped

TinLip said:

Ooh! I'm going to be in Dallas this weekend and am staying 2 blocks from where he was shot.
Want any photos or validation of facts?
@Skipped.

Ooh!
Please don't go to any trouble. But if you could post a selfie of you standing behind the picket fence above the grassy knoll wearing a hard hat made from Lego - that would be great.

(would love to see a couple of pics from your visit to Dealey Plaza)

ICBM

Utter bollocks.

The trajectory and type of the bullet which went through Kennedy's head - clearly established in the autopsy - totally rules that out, but matches perfectly with Oswald. The smoking gun was the one he left on the sixth floor of the Book Depository.

Read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-History-Assassination-President-Kennedy/dp/0393045250

All the evidence is in there, presented in mind-numbingly thorough detail.

My dad believes that crackpot theory unfortunately.

not_the_dj

...next week...Big Foot The Truth and the Nessie Special.

Skipped

A confession ICBM.....I mainly posted to get your response. 
I am working my way through maybe 20 books on the assassination. I cannot explain why. But I do know that you share the interest.

None of the theories have really grabbed me more than any other.
What does your dad say?
The agent seems to have picked up the rifle (for obvious reasons) just before the head shot.
Any thoughts about the smell of gunpowder around the cars?

randomhandclaps

My favourite theory is the one involving Heather Mills and a white Fiat Uno... Although come to think of it that may have been in relation to Princess Di.

bingefeller

I heard the Babushka Lady was Madeline McCann in her past life. Why do you guys think she's missing now?

Paul_C

randomhandclaps said:

My favourite theory is the one involving Heather Mills and a white Fiat Uno... Although come to think of it that may have been in relation to Princess Di.

you're saying Paul McCartney arranged the hit ?

Adam_MD

No way the truth has been out for some time now

ICBM

Skipped said:

A confession ICBM.....I mainly posted to get your response. 
I am working my way through maybe 20 books on the assassination. I cannot explain why. But I do know that you share the interest.

The agent seems to have picked up the rifle (for obvious reasons) just before the head shot.
Any thoughts about the smell of gunpowder around the cars?

I don't doubt it's possible the gun went off. But for the bullet to hit, totally randomly and unaimed out of all possible points in a sphere centred on the gun, the same spot on the back of JFK's head that Oswald was aiming at, at the precise moment he fired his third shot and missed the car altogether, just defies all probability. Even discounting that the trajectory was totally wrong, since the bullet travelled at a downwards angle through JFK's head even though he was leaning slightly forward - for a bullet from the car behind to have done that would be more impressive than the so-called 'Magic Bullet'.

Interestingly one of the long-held conspiracist justifications for multiple gunmen is that a bullet mark was allegedly found on a kerbstone on the west side of the street, where it couldn't possibly have been made by one of Oswald's bullets. I wonder where that might have come from...

And Oswald certainly did fire three shots. There were witnesses in the room below who heard them - one who was standing directly underneath even heard the cartridge cases hitting the floor.

Read Bugliosi's book, really - or the shorter version 'Four Days In November'. It's utterly meticulous, and in my opinion conclusive. There just isn't any room left for any other explanation than that Oswald did it. Of course the one thing that we'll never know is *why*, and if there was any conspiracy at all it seems more likely to be that someone did put him up to it.

I'm really not sure why it's still so interesting, in some ways - I admit I did spend a lot of time on it, starting originally when I saw Oliver Stone's 'JFK', and realised that even in that film, the conclusion Stone wants us to believe is disproved by the Zapruder footage itself. The fatal bullet absolutely certainly came from behind, not in front.

But he's been dead for 50 years. Does it really matter that much any more?

Hootsmon

not_the_dj said:

...next week...Big Foot The Truth and the Nessie Special.

are they two dating?

Fretwired

Unfortunately the guy alleged to have shot JFK successfully sued the makers of the documentary. It was also proven that the people protecting JFK didn't have military assault rifles. The truth will never be known.

Oswald was an ex-marine but his rifle was a piece of Italian crap. He took a shot at a US major general for 100 yards and missed and yet we are supposed to believe he was able to fire three shots and hit JFK. Given his politics why didn't he admit he killed JFK? Something doesn't add up.

DulcetJones

Actually it was Col. Mustard in the library with the lead pipe.

ICBM

Fretwired said:

Oswald was an ex-marine but his rifle was a piece of Italian crap. He took a shot at a US major general for 100 yards and missed and yet we are supposed to believe he was able to fire three shots and hit JFK. Given his politics why didn't he admit he killed JFK? Something doesn't add up.

It's still less impossible than all the other supposed explanations. He was a good shot, and the rifle wasn't that bad - and the car was moving slowly and almost directly away from him, the easiest target. He only hit JFK twice in three shots too.

Who knows why he never admitted it... Jack Ruby made sure of that. But if he didn't do it, why did he kill the policeman? That doesn't add up either.

Don't take my word for it, read the Bugliosi book. It totally damns not just this but most other conspiracy theories in my opinion - there is just so much microscopic detail that is carefully recorded but rarely reported, and that most conspiracists just aren't even aware of but which demolishes any 'alternative' explanation before it can even start to be credible.

PhilTQ

Do a search on James Files.
There is also a good documentary made by a dutch guy about the whole shooting. Basically it was a CIA/Mafia job to get rid of Kennedy who had severely hacked off both of them. There are interviews with ex CIA agents who piece together what happened.

According to Files Oswald was CIA and a scape goat, set up to take the blame and then murdered by Ruby (mafia) to cover it up. The shooters were supposed to be Charles Nicoletti (mafia and Files' boss) and John Rosselli (Mafia/CIA link). CIA wanted to cancel at the last minute and Rosselli refused to take part. Nicoletti had not been told to abort by his boss and asked Files to be back-up if he missed.

Files was behind the fence on the Grassy Knoll counting the shots. Nicoletti was in the Dal-Tex building across the road from the Book Depository and looking straight down the road.

Files fired at the last minute just before a sign obstructed his view and hit Kennedy in the head at the same time as Nicoletti hit the head. The Zapruder film shows Kennedys head move forward slightly as Nicoletti's shot hit him and is then pushed back as Files hits him.

Files used a 22mm Remington fireball with a mercury loaded round to do ask much damage as possible. The Fireball was basically a hand gun with a long barrel.

Files walked away and met up with Rosselli and Nicoletti and drove them to a car parked a few roads away.



 

RocknRollDave

DulcetJones said:

Actually it was Col. Decker in the library with the lead pipe.

:-O

Col_Decker

^^^

 

Hash pipe is more my style, but I don't inhale