NPPD: New Power Pin Day!!

ThorpyFX

This might not appeal to the acoustic aficionados but..... i really liked the idea of this, easy to string and the strings are anchored better to the soundboard. I love the aesthetics, i love the speed with which the strings can be changed and for this guitar the black power pins look great (also available in chrome and gold).. sound wise i think it has added a nice bit of high end to my faith eclipse dreadnought. heartily recommended!!

here are some pictures of it fitted to my guitar:

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m447/thorpy6/425D5557-32D7-448B-85C0-4995A500A28C.jpg

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m447/thorpy6/0F20F836-F1DF-4321-B503-516BCEAF49BB.jpg

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m447/thorpy6/EBFAF4E6-80A9-47B0-9D5A-AA24D0FE4A7E.jpg

here is the review from guitarworld:

http://www.guitarworld.com/gear-review-power-pins-bridge-pins-acoustic-guitars

Gagaryn

I can't see how these will do anything but reduce resonance of the soundboard. Useful if that's what you want, might tame a boomy dreadnought. Might also be why there is a perceived increase in high end.

ThorpyFX

Gagaryn said:

I can't see how these will do anything but reduce resonance of the soundboard. Useful if that's what you want, might tame a boomy dreadnought. Might also be why there is a perceived increase in high end.

I can't see why that would be the case? The guitar sounds just as lively, just as loud. the strings are still anchored to the soundboard (more securely now) Im no acoustic aficionado so maybe i could be educated in this regard?

ICBM

They might well sound good, and even change the tone in a way you like, but it's not because the strings are "better secured" or in "better contact with the soundboard".

The strings are not anchored to the soundboard better - it's the same or less well, depending on whether any vibration is lost between the string and the pin (unlikely, but possible). With a conventional pin, the ball ends are pulled up hard under the bridgeplate inside, so there is no loss at all.

Be careful you don't end up with marks along the back edge of the bridge from the ball ends.

That Guitar World website is really massively annoying too!

Sassafras

Ain't that the truth. I thought it was going to bring on a fit.

The guitar world website,that is.

xmrchi

did the manufacturer have to milk the oil glad or wait for the natural evacuation of said snake :-D

ThorpyFX

ICBM said:

They might well sound good, and even change the tone in a way you like, but it's not because the strings are "better secured" or in "better contact with the soundboard".

The strings are not anchored to the soundboard better - it's the same or less well, depending on whether any vibration is lost between the string and the pin (unlikely, but possible). With a conventional pin, the ball ends are pulled up hard under the bridgeplate inside, so there is no loss at all.

Be careful you don't end up with marks along the back edge of the bridge from the ball ends.

That Guitar World website is really massively annoying too!

Im not sure about this, the power Pins are bolted through the soundboard and secured tightly with an allen key inside the guitar. they are certainly more solidly secure than the push in ebony pins. The ball ends sit within a metal "case" which is the top half of the pin that is bolted onto the guitar, so they don't touch the bridge at all.

mrchi said:

did the manufacturer have to milk the oil glad or wait for the natural evacuation of said snake :-D

Well maybe, i only bought them for the convenience of string changing, i hate stringing up acoustics, i wanted something that was more like an electric. and for this reason i am happy. 

ICBM

thorpy6 said:

Im not sure about this, the power Pins are bolted through the soundboard and secured tightly with an allen key inside the guitar. they are certainly more solidly secure than the push in ebony pins.

On a conventional pin bridge the string ball ends are tightly in direct contact with the underside of the bridgeplate and hence the soundboard. The pins don't have to be tight in the holes order to keep them in place - this is a fundamental misunderstanding many people have about the way the system works. All the pins do is stop the ball end from being able to move back into the hole, the tension is taken by the bridgeplate.

thorpy6 said:

The ball ends sit within a metal "case" which is the top half of the pin that is bolted onto the guitar, so they don't touch the bridge at all.

Exactly, and so the string is *less* directly connected to the soundboard, even if the Power Pin is bolted tightly to the bridge.

I'm certainly not saying these don't make changing strings easier (although I don't find that a problem with normal pins) or that they don't necessarily change the tone in a way you like - they may well. I'm just pointing out that the claim of "greater string contact" is wrong. That seems to be true with a lot of modern "improvements" over traditional methods of doing things - bolting extra bits on doesn't actually produce a tighter or closer coupling than using the string tension itself to do the job.

Lexie1

Ovation used to have their strings top loaded, for want of a better expression, i.e. they didn't actually pass through the Bridge and enter the body, and they were a popular enough brand? I have to admit that if I were still playing acoustic, I'd give these a try. Mind you, I think they might make a 12 strings bridge look a bit busy?

xmrchi

To be honest, I can see the benefit of these, my old takamine didn't use pins but thought the rear of the bridge and it was so easy to change strings, that's one thing I do miss, can you put up a pic so I can see what they look like properly?

WezV

Lexie1 said:

Ovation used to have their strings top loaded, for want of a better expression, i.e. they didn't actually pass through the Bridge and enter the body, and they were a popular enough brand? I have to admit that if I were still playing acoustic, I'd give these a try. Mind you, I think they might make a 12 strings bridge look a bit busy?

Ovations are not the best example - most don't like them these days.  but there are loads of other builders using pinless designs and they work well

they usually have a break angle over the saddle similar to a pinned bridge - the power pins seem to reduce this angle a bit.

ThorpyFX

mrchi said:

To be honest, I can see the benefit of these, my old takamine didn't use pins but thought the rear of the bridge and it was so easy to change strings, that's one thing I do miss, can you put up a pic so I can see what they look like properly?

theres three pictures above, what do you need?

xmrchi

Oops sorry I did that on my phone so the pics didn't automatically come up :-)

ICBM

WezV said:

they usually have a break angle over the saddle similar to a pinned bridge - the power pins seem to reduce this angle a bit.

That's something I was going to say earlier but forgot - with some guitars which have an excessively high bridge saddle (including this one in my opinion), reducing the break angle and hence the forward pressure on the saddle could be a good thing.

Gru

thorpy6;519081" said:

Gagaryn said:

I can't see how these will do anything but reduce resonance of the soundboard. Useful if that's what you want, might tame a boomy dreadnought. Might also be why there is a perceived increase in high end.





I can't see why that would be the case? The guitar sounds just as lively, just as loud. the strings are still anchored to the soundboard (more securely now) Im no acoustic aficionado so maybe i could be educated in this regard?

It's easy to be sceptical about things like this. I think the subject of this system came up a couple of weeks ago. I had the same thoughts before I tried a 'doctor bridge' on my bulging old laminate top guitar, and the change blew me away.

I understand why they split opinion, but I am glad you are happy with what they do and that they give you the ease of string changes that you wanted. Sounds like a good buy to me.

ThorpyFX

Gru said:

thorpy6;519081" said:

Gagaryn said:

I can't see how these will do anything but reduce resonance of the soundboard. Useful if that's what you want, might tame a boomy dreadnought. Might also be why there is a perceived increase in high end.





I can't see why that would be the case? The guitar sounds just as lively, just as loud. the strings are still anchored to the soundboard (more securely now) Im no acoustic aficionado so maybe i could be educated in this regard?

It's easy to be sceptical about things like this. I think the subject of this system came up a couple of weeks ago. I had the same thoughts before I tried a 'doctor bridge' on my bulging old laminate top guitar, and the change blew me away.

I understand why they split opinion, but I am glad you are happy with what they do and that they give you the ease of string changes that you wanted. Sounds like a good buy to me.

I was a sceptic, however sometimes you need to take the plunge, innovation (whether needed or not) is what drives the world. I understand that this may be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist for many, however for me the added convenience makes it worthwhile. I feel the same way about locking tuners, i have them fitted to all my guitars purely to make string changes easier. for many its not a big deal, for me knowing there is a better solution out there is enough to make it worthwhile.