EQ on the Zoom G3 - 12khz important?

thecolourbox

So in a bizarre change of fortune, an amp I bought on a (slightly too expensive moment of madness) whim that I've been trying to get rid of ever since, has seemingly come good all of a sudden. It's a Mooer Little Monster Bassman copy lunchbox amp. I've been looking for a good "home amp" set up and thought I'd try it with a variety of fx on my Zoom G3, as the tone felt a bit bare and bland and very revealing on my less than ideal technique level. I've managed to find an excellent combination on there that I'm pretty happy with, by boosting it a bit but mainly because of having an eq first in the chain

I'm using the Graphic equalizer. I do have a basic Joyo EQ as well and tried to "mirror" the settings to see if it worked with "proper" pedals rather than the multi fx unit as that does not always play nicely with other real pedals should I want to use them. I could not get it to sound as good and I think I have found the reason. Most EQs seem to follow different frequency steps, usually starting with a base (or indeed Bass!) amount of around 100hz, then every following band basically being double the last one.

The Zoom however, goes 160, 400, 800, 3200, 6400, and the 12000 (for harmonics, i think). I've googled a bit today (results below) but the pedals available follow different patterns, and there's only one (the MXR 10 band) that goes as high as the Zoom.

I'm not brilliantly technically minded, so this might all sound a bit obvious. But as the Joyo and Zoom ones in the low and mids could be quite similar, as in ball park, it must be that there are two bands above what the Joyo can offer on the Zoom which are making the difference? The 6.4khz and 12khz are boosted. To do the same with real pedals, would I have to:

Either - get the MXR ten band and try to "match off" settings with the closest comparable bands
Or - Use the Joyo eq followed by a treble boosting drive pedal
Or -  Get the Boss 7 band which goes most the way up and has roughly similar frequency amounts

Lastly, am I imagining that boosting the harmonics frequency would make such a difference? Is it even necessary?

For reference, I play White Stripes and Strokes style indie, Country blues, and I play a Telecaster. Kind of wanting to know just for knowledge really, but also if I were to switch to proper pedals (say if I got gigging, presumably the same set up might work on a bigger Bassman flavour amp) I would know what to look for

thecolourbox

Here's a little comparison of a few, including the zoom one with settings I have used (the range of settings goes from -12 to +12, i presume decibels but who knows)

 

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a639/matthew_goodwin1/Untitled_zpsda7e1977.jpg

ICBM

It's unlikely a standard guitar speaker will reproduce the 12KHz band much at all, so don't worry too much about it. The 6.4KHz is likely to be the important one. If it's the EQ that's the reason at all - it might not be, it could just be something in the voicing or even the D/A conversion in the Zoom.

The Boss GE-7 is notoriously noisy unless you get a modded (eg Monte Allums) one, by the way.

thecolourbox

Hmm ok that is interesting re the 12khz. I suppose I thought it was important because a) it was an available setting and b) I have it set to boost But I guess a) could be explained by the potential usage of the eq after an amp model on there which may cause higher frequencies, and b) could be explained by me needing it set to a boost in order to hear anything at all!

I don't think I'd have any idea about the D/A on the Zoom, I suppose there is also the potential that the slap back delay I put on it at the end of the chain might contribute but I am fairly sure I tried it without as well and it soudned the same.

I had heard that before about the Boss, but I think I have seen them pop up on here quite often modded.

I think I need to have another play, and try messing more with the Joyo. I'm thinking the 100 & 200hz on the Joyo would need to be set to basically the same as the 160hz on the Zoom, 400 800 nd 3200 hz are the same, 16khz maybe somewhere between the 800 and 3.2khz. Also I could turn the 12khz to 0. Then maybe I will see if it is the 6.4khz that is the big deal, or jus the Zoom in general

 

guitarfishbay

You do get stuff happening at 12khz on a recording, so that EQ band would be useful if you were using a cab sim and recording it direct.

It might also be useful after a distortion.  But I can't imagine the pickups alone producing much 12khz before going through some distortion causing pedal/amp, if the EQ is first after the guitar I wouldn't think the 12khz is doing much.  I might be wrong, I've never tried boosting that frequency first in line.

ThePrettyDamned

12khz is something I've dialled out before on recordings, or at least reduced, it made stuff less harsh,but it didn't just affect the 12khz freq, if that makes sense - the band had width. It's subtle, but there - that's with headphones and DI stuff, mind, so I don't know if it applies to guitar speakers.

thecolourbox

It's fascinating stuff to me is this, quite interesting to kind of open the can of worms with the actual physics of what's making the noise nicer than it was before, mixed with the excitement of potential GAS if I were to look into getting a proper eq pedal!

It sounds like the 12khz is unlikely then to make much difference, so I'll dial it back to zero (and experiment on other settings) to see what if anything it does. I'm playing a normal Tele with EMG actives in it so I doubt there's anything earth shatteringly high frequency coming out of it, and my cab is a basic cheap Vox 1x10 so I doubt that's putting out any funky stuff.

I did wonder whether the G3 was buffered, and whether that would make any real audible difference. But I doubt it, I think I just fancy finding a reason to buy a new buffered pedal (Soul Food anyone?)

thecolourbox

So I had a little play the other day, and you were all quite right the 12khz didn't make a lot of difference, very miniscule more amount of amp noise in fact with it on high. So I dropped it to 0. The 6.4khz did seem to make a difference and i liked it best on the setting I had saved

I had a play with my Joyo eq, trying to approximately match as much as I could with the similar frequency numbers, but it didn't really seem to do it the same, it still sounded dull like the amp does without any eq. The Joyo deos not go up to 6.4khz, so I am possibly thinking that may potentially be the key bit, as I guess it would liven up a dull amp to increase the high freq

So, were I to try and recreate this, yes I could probably try the Boss (if modded to not be noisy) or the MXR 10 Band (there's one at my local Crack Converters for c£70), Or I could just get the Zoom multi stomp, which presumably if there were to be any impact of digical ADA conversion, that should do the same right? But take up much less space than the G3, sitting at the back of the board with the eq model always on.

Or, I could kill the gas and realise I'm only playing at home, the Zoom sounds perfectly good and is totally adequate for that purpose...

Nomad

thecolourbox said:

Or, I could kill the gas and realise I'm only playing at home, the Zoom sounds perfectly good and is totally adequate for that purpose...

You could. The Zoom G3X has been one of the best guitar-related purchases I've ever made. Got it mainly for the amp models, but I do use the parametric EQ quite a bit (I tried the graphic but wasn't so keen because I think guitar EQs should start at 80Hz = bottom E). The parametric is 2-band, and has variable Q for each band as well as centre frequency and boost/cut, as well as overall level (can be used as a clean boost). They also seem to stack quite well.

thecolourbox

Yes I'd say similar, second only to my EMG Tele pickups, the G3 has fulfilled more roles than any other pedal. The graphic eq is proving better for me (i don't understand the parametric if I'm honest) because the amp just needs boosting in the higher register and it goes quite high on that.

Rather unfortunately ive just won a Klone on ebay, so I'm thinking the gas may have won...but can always use the Zoom alongside real pedals

Nomad

The parametric is like a sweepable mid boost/cut on a mixing desk, except it has a wider range for setting the centre frequency. It also has a Q control which sets how wide or narrow the boosted or cut band is. And it has two of those setups per pedal, so you can make a variety of EQ setups. If you only need one, just set the boost/cut in the centre.