so ~ OVERDRIVE ~ DISTORTION ~ FUZZ ~ how many different types are there ¿? ¿? ¿?

ChrisMusic

How many different "families", types or classes of overdrive, or distortion or fuzz are there ?

I am easily confused, and there are just so many pedals out there, each with their own "smoke and mirrors" marketing.

I don't mean all the different "flavours" of Tube Screamer variants, but distinctly different sounding FX circuits in each category.  (i.e. Tube Screamer vs other O/D -or- Rat vs other distortion types, etc, etc)

Also can you give me a layman's guide to what the characteristics of each are please ?

And while I am asking such noob questions, what is the difference between overdrive and distortion, apart from one being a gained up version of the other ?

Thanks all  

edit: slightly re-phrased the question for clarity (¿?)

ThePrettyDamned

Too many and not enough.

ICBM

42

ChrisMusic

Level

TheCount

Lots of OD's and distortions are based on/have their roots in  the following circuits

Tubescreamer

Bluesbreaker / shredmaster  Guvnor etc

Rat

Klon

MXR Distortion + / OD 250

Big Muff

LPB1

The list goes on but I'd guess 10 to 20 circuits support 95% of OD / Dist pedals

Fuzz is easier because most builders are re-creating a tone so tell you what it is.

mike_l

ICBM said:

42

Shit, I'm only half way there........

 

3 basic types

Overdrive - smooth clipping

Distortion - hard clipping

fuzz.

 

Although some sell as distortion (MXR Distortion3 for example) which is much closer to an overdrive than a distortion.

 

 

Handsome_Chris

ZVex Fuzz Factory - FTW

ChrisMusic

I have edited the OP and slightly re-phrased the question for clarity (¿hopefully?)

Maybe ICBM's 42 comment was asking for a better question, in Douglas Adams-esque stylee ?

ICBM

ChrisMusic said:

I have edited the OP and slightly re-phrased the question for clarity (¿hopefully?)

Maybe ICBM's 42 comment was asking for a better question, in Douglas Adams-esque stylee ?

Sort of .

Really they're all types of distortion, and almost all work by overdriving either a gain stage to make it clip or using diodes to produce clipping, or both. Gain stages are either transistors or integrated circuit (IC) operational amplifiers (op-amps).

Generally "overdrive" pedals use a softer form of clipping, or gain limiting which produces a similar effect. (Usually but not always, diodes in an op-amp feedback loop.)

Generally "distortion" pedals use a harder form of clipping. (Usually but not always, an op-amp driving diodes clipping to ground.)

Generally "fuzz" pedals use a type of distortion which produces a lot of harmonics and artifacts rather than simple clipping. (Usually but not always, discrete transistors.)

There are a very few - eg the ZVex Machine - which use very different types of waveform distortion (it uses crossover distortion).

There are some that can do more than one apparent type of sound by modifying the tone response. (eg the Rat)

If you're asking how may basic types of circuits there are… not that many.

Transistor-only fuzzes - usually two (Fuzz Face) or three (Later Tonebender) transistors.

Transistor + diodes fuzz/distortions - either one transistor (Electra Distortion) or multiple (Big Muff).

Op-Amp + diodes-in-feedback-loop overdrives - Boss OD-1/SD-1, all Tube Screamers and derivatives.

Op-Amp + diodes-to-ground distortions - Rat, MXR Distortion+, Boss DS-1 etc.

Combinations of more than one of those.

Some use transistors configured as diodes (eg Fulltone OCD), or LEDs (eg Marshall Guv'nor), in place of normal diodes.

Op-amp overdrive (no diodes) by itself is very rarely used since it can be quite unpredictable and often doesn't sound good - although the Fulltone Fulldrive 'Comp-Cut' mode is that.

Confused yet?

Sassafras

Between £30 right up to Klons for £2000

equalsql

Wow..Sometime @ICBM I sit in awe of your electronics knowledge. 'You the man' 

ChrisMusic

^^^ what @equalsql said ^^^

Excellent explanation ICBM.

No, not confused, that makes sense, and really helps clarify things a lot, thanks   

meltedbuzzbox

@randomhandclaps seems to really know his shit when it comes to pedals. 

randomhandclaps

@ICBM's explanation is accurate and clear and I've not really anything to add to that specifically.

My actual opinion on it is that when it comes to drive/distortion pedals there are literally only two groups and most of the pigeon holes are created merely because it's difficult to describe sound to someone. 

Group one is your single stage pedals like Rangemasters, Micro Amps or SHOs etc.  I know we now classify them as boost pedals but at their extreme settings and biased hot they induce their own clipping.  On top of this although I readily use the term overdrive to describe a mild distortion from a pedal, I believe an 'overdrive pedal' should technically be a pedal that overdrives your amp.

Group two is everything else.  There are different ways of achieving the same sounds or similar ways of achieving distinctly different sounds, but basically everything beyond a single stage (with the exception of active EQ components) is performing the same job.  Stage one overloads the next and so on. 

What determines how a pedal tends to be classified has far more to do with not what goes on in the inside but the lack words we have to describe sounds accurately.  Generally speaking, light and tight and we say a overdrive.  Heavier and tight and we say it's a distortion pedal.  Heavy and wooly and we label it fuzz.

You can look at a couple of famous pedal circuits to see how much variation you can get with one approach: 

If you take a standard Rat, it was supposedly designed to sound like a fuzz pedal into a Marshall stack.   Nowadays we tend to classify it as a distortion pedal.  In it's standard form is has a single opamp which boost the signal before it crosses two 1N914 (or 1N4148) silicon diodes connect to ground that create the bulk of the clipping you hear.  Swapping or removing just this one part can arguably move  the pedal into a different category. 

Swap them for germanium diodes (like a Dirty Rat) and you get far more of a fuzz.  Swap them for diodes with a higher forward voltage like an LEDs and you lose the compressed distortion and have more of an open 'overdrive' (like in the Turbo Rat).  Remove the diodes altogether and you get a booster, albeit one with it's own flavour like the Xotic EP Booster as it ends up driving a JFet further down the line (just like the EP booster).  So within one pedal circuit, the most basic levels of ability and just altering one part you can change it into four supposedly different pedals.  You could label one a booster, one an overdrive, one a distortion and one a fuzz.  If you boxed each up and stuck them on the shelf, never to be opened up and analysed then when people tried them no-one would question why you categorised each as such.

Next look at the Fuzz Face.  It's called a 'Fuzz' Face so must be a Fuzz right? No.  It's called a Fuzz Face because we used to only have the option of a Boost pedal to drive our amp or a 'Fuzz Box'.  When we say "I want a Fuzz Face" we aren't talking about a circuit, we are talking about a classic sound that has become iconic.  As some internet wisdom advices you can just use what works but piss around with that 'simple' circuit and very quickly you can stray away from having a fuzz at all. 

Most people are aware of 'ideal range' transistors when building a Fuzz Face but besides obsessing about bias not many people are aware of what the impact of different transistors have on the end sound of the circuit.  In recent years you are seeing a lot of FFs made with Russian old stock transistors.  Being predictably Russian these transistors are in general ruthlessly efficient.  As a result where we are used to seeing and accounting for leakage with germanium transistors, most Russian equivalents have none.  Leakage is always purported to be a bad thing so surely that's good, right? No, not really.  A lot of the harmonic fuzziness the FF produces is due to the leakage and the long sustain we associate with fuzz devices is (in the case of germanium) due to leakage across the transistor keeping them open for the signal to pass when it would usually have been shut out or gated.  So swap out like for like value germaniums for leakage free Russian germaniums and suddenly rather that a fuzz you have a tighter distortion.  It's not to say it's bad, it's just different despite all values appearing the same. 

Similarly with the Fuzz Face, in the sole obsession to ensure it biases correctly you'll see advice to alter the resistors soldered to each transistor collector.  You can do this and everything appears to work on your meter but as you drop away from the standard 33K on the first transistor you reduce the drive and reduce the gain in a completely different was to rolling back the gain knob.  Very quickly and simply you end up with a two transistor 'overdrive'.

Apologies as the last bit is a bit long-winded but the point really is that in reality the moment you pass a single stage in drive then it's the end sound rather than the type of circuit that determines how we choose to categorise it.

breadfan

Great post @randomhandclaps. ;

I've awarded you a LOL though, as that's what I usually do. 

Paul_C

breadfan said:

Great post @randomhandclaps. ;

I've awarded you a LOL though, as that's what I usually do. 

he wasn't as funny as usual though, I hope nothing's wrong.

DesVegas

You had me at hello

Handsome_Chris

Surely the only thing you need to know is if a pedal works for you? For me, all the knowledge in the world is no substitute for getting my hands on the little beasties and hearing what they do.

ChrisMusic

Cheers for that @Handsome_Chris.  I reckon you are right, there really is no substitute for getting hands on experience (or should that be "ears on" experience?).  A good principle for most things in life.

Unfortunately, that way lies financial ruin.

I was warned, when I started playing again, to beware of overdrive pedals.

No, I thought, guitars may be a bit compulsive, but pedals, no.

So to save what sanity I have left, I am trying to find a way to fit them into some sort of framework.  That "should" allow choosing and comparing similar sounding pedals, without being too taken in by the marketing BS and large pricing differentials.  That is my naive hope anyway.

I am also hoping that a framework will allow me to compare the different types / classes of pedals, those ones which have distinctly different sounds or playing feel.

In an ideal world that should allow me to understand what I am trying, how it fits into the great scheme of things, how it will suit my amps and set up, and save a lot of money, time and frustration in the process.

Given that I am learning all over again, there are so many things subject to change, so a better understanding should help me future proof my decisions better, or at least know how to adapt as time goes on.

I am sure I can't be the only one on that journey ?

ChrisMusic

Excellent, and very informative post @randomhandclaps, thank you so much  

That builds very nicely on what ICBM was saying.

I was particularly interested in the Rat, as an example.  I had been told that it was a totally different approach, but a couple of diodes from signal to ground is hardly earth shatteringly innovative technology.

I think you are right, in that so much of this comes down to semantics.

Although that makes this whole exploratory process somewhat akin to wrestling with a bag of wet spaghetti !

The two basic groupings you created does make a lot of sense to me.  That is a good functional perspective.

Historically, the overdrive pedals were launched into a world fast becoming dominated by a solid state future, and were looking to replace the overdrive sound from valves, in that new world view.  However it does seem to me that your idea of; "I believe an 'overdrive pedal' should technically be a pedal that overdrives your amp", holds a lot of merit, and is functionally more accurate for todays usage, where the humble valve still holds harmonic sway.

Thanks for pointing out the bit about the by product of leakage in germanium transistors creating their own sonic fingerprint.  It does show how subtle technological differences can have a profound impact on what we hear.

Interesting point that good technology is not necessarily perfect technology, a point which ICBM has made on numerous occasions about other aspects of creating satisfying guitar tones.

I am looking to find a way to explore the varied sonic palette that pedals can offer, without bankrupting myself in the process.

Wishful thinking, I do hope not, that's why I started this discussion / exploration, both for me, and for anyone else on a similar path.

Thanks for your help  

mike_l

ChrisMusic said:

 

I was warned to beware of overdrive pedals.

I wish someone had warned me.