Please critique my band (positive constructive advice)

nickp

how did it go @close2u

btw I agree with Danny1969 - slowly, gently, nurture....

jpfamps

I never worry about musicians in the audience, who you think may be judgemental about the band

Ultimately they're in the audience and not up playing, which says it all to me.

Anyhow, who wants to play to a load of musos? If you want to do this, play jazz fusion or start a Frank Zappa tribute band.

I think you've got plenty to work with, and you've got some very useful advice from working musicians.

In my opinion the 3 biggest mistakes that amateur covers bands (and indeed many pro bands do) is  1) overplaying, 2) playing songs that one member of the band has learnt and considered technically challenging on their instrument (which usually leads to 1) rather than work for the band as a whole. 3) Not listening to the rest of the band.

Simple music played well is MUCH better to listen too than complicated music played badly (and very often complicated music played well!).

There is a ton of songs of there and your priority seems to be to get a couple sets of material together so you can get gigging, so I would (and it's a terrible phrase I know) go for the "low hanging fruit", ie go for songs you can get up to a decent standard quickly. Once you get out there and do some gigs you can prune the set and introduce other songs that take more work.

Regarding the singer's voice getting tired, this is almost always due to poor technique, and very often singing too loud to try to compensate for poor monitoring. Ultimately the singer needs to find a volume that is comfortable for her to sing at, and try not to compensate if she can't herself. This is very hard to do, but keeping the on stage levels down helps with the monitoring.

Get out there!

close2u

nickp said:

how did it go @close2u. 

Update.

We all met over a drink.

My minimum expectations of the discussion were that:

i] We would be getting a 2nd singer (to share lead and provide harmony / backing)

ii] We would agree to bring in Motown and other upbeat songs that we (bass & I) did with a previous singer that were fantastic

iii] We would drop the songs that the singer can't sing.

iv] We would be gigging asap

v] the singer would pledge to learn lyrics poste haste

close2u

These didn't happen.

No 2^nd singer … bass & drums were told to do more by vocalist instead. Every time I raised it the topic shifted away. Our singer did say she would never work with another female singer as it gets competitive. Bass & drums must do more backing and do it better.

No Motown … maybe, at some far distant unspecified future date, maybe. But probably not because the singer said she struggles to sing them, she ain't black and her voice is too pure for them.

Virtually no songs dropped … only a couple … but too many songs left in that she can’t sing.

No gigs … the band decided we shouldn't play yet in case it didn't go well and knocked our confidence. I had arranged two mini-gigs [45-60 minute sets only] but I had to cancel them. I also had two other offers including a request to play an engagement party in June (would have been very lucrative). I turned them down.

No need to learn lyrics … the singer complained about the limited time she gets in a week to dedicate to this and she can't learn songs very quickly. So her use of a music stand was given the go-ahead.

FFS.

Another aspect is the drummer and singer coming ‘as a couple’. If one goes so will the other. This makes musical decisions based on musical grounds more difficult to take. Honestly, if they weren’t a couple, would the singer still be with us?

I'm at the point of quitting.

One glimmer of hope.

I placed an ad for a singer and have been contacted by someone with potential.

Fingers crossed.

robinbowes

Time to walk away. R.

vasselmeyer

Move on. Sounds like a recipe for resentment and back-biting to me.

close2u

My thoughts too. I was actually in the middle of writing my 'notice to quit' message when the potential singer's ad response hit my inbox. It has swayed me back to the band and the possibility of running with it a little longer.

But ... mmmhhh

Col_Decker

or ... ditch the current band, take the basser with you, get the new singer, look for a drummer.

 

 

Col_Decker

Could you try changing the key of the songs your singer struggles with? Make the songs more in her range.

vasselmeyer

I've been in situations where a band's life is being artificially stretched out because the unhappy members know they have time and effort invested they don't want to feel they've wasted it. In my experience, certainly in a covers/pub band you're just prolonging the inevitable.

Having been through the situation before in other bands, I made my point very clear when I joined my last band that my personal life comes first and that I wasn't "100% committed" to the band which is what was requested. Birthdays, anniversaries, holidays and work came first and then the band got what was left. We played together for about three years and it was all running very nicely with gigs in the diary, great audience response and it was a lot of fun. However, some snarky emails got sent around because of gigs we had to move because of personal circumstances and  I just thought..."Why bother? I'm not dealing with this bullshit." and walked along with the singer and the drummer. I rehearsed with a new band last night and I reckon we'll be out on the pub circuit within a few months. 

I think as you get older and more experienced of what life in a band is like, your tolerance of bullshit and personal agendas comes right down. Life's too short to deal with nonsense when being in a covers band is just supposed to be fun and a hobby. Face it, hardly anybody makes a living out of being in a covers band so, if all you want is to have fun and earn a bit of pocket money, why deal with other peoples' agendas?

hubobulous

The way they have reacted to your approach tells me that they're never going to be easy to work with and the problems never lie at their doorstep.

Get a new singer and drummer and enjoy yourself. The singer sounds like she's not interested in improving and that will frustrate you as time passes.

monquixote

I think of all of the things you list the refusal to do gigs would be the killer for me. 

Gigs where you aren't prepared do knock your confidence, but they also shatter delusions of adequacy and focus the mind that you need to step up to the plate and learn your shit. 

lloyd

Sorry to hear that, looks like you all have widely differing expectations so for that reason, you should get out.....

The music stand thing for me is the killer-it looks so amateurish, I know the big acts do it with iPads or Autocue but a band down the dog and duck just looks terrible doing it.

The no gigs thing is a bit daft too, most people accept that a gig over the horizon will focus you to get your shit together.

The drummer and singer coming as a pair sends out massive warning signals too, he sounds like he can't criticize her in any way-even constructively-so she'll have an ally in all her battles.Reading between the lines I guess that he backed the no 2nd singer and no learning lyrics?

The big problem with walking away (and reforming with bass and new singer) is that drummers are hard to come by.....I'd still walk though.

Personally I wouldn't go into something like this where there was a husband/wife combo, especially if one of them was the singer. 99/100 the band will end up being the platform for the darling singing star.....

close2u

Col_Decker said:

Could you try changing the key of the songs your singer struggles with? Make the songs more in her range.

She has picked the keys.

For every song where we don't use the original I have used audacity to change pitches up and down in semitone increments, saved and sent her the mp3s then told her to try them and pick. For songs in the original key I have done something similar.

Needless to say - this takes hours.

Or if not this, then at rehearsals we have transposed on the fly. She is supposed to be able to figure this out. She is the singer.

close2u

vasselmeyer said:

I've been in situations where a band's life is being artificially stretched out because the unhappy members know they have time and effort invested they don't want to feel they've wasted it.

Nail on head!

vasselmeyer said:

 In my experience, certainly in a covers/pub band you're just prolonging the inevitable.

No doubt.

close2u

hubobulous said:

Get a new singer and drummer and enjoy yourself.

Hard to find in my neck of the woods unfortunately.

hubobulous said:

The singer sounds like she's not interested in improving and that will frustrate you as time passes.

Yes, very little acknowledgment that her pitching is painful at times.

close2u

monquixote said:

I think of all of the things you list the refusal to do gigs would be the killer for me. 

It was based on the advice and encouragement I received from you and others in this thread that made me search out gigs.

I put out notices in local facebook groups ... covers band seeks mini-gigs (charity shows, showcase events, open mic nights etc).

I got some great responses.

1] a charity night (no payment) as 1st act in a pub - 60 minute set, which I felt confident we could do by leaving out all the dodgy songs.

We all agreed via email and I confirmed with the organiser. At the meeting band members said the pub looked a bit too much like a 'rock venue' and they didn't fancy getting bottled or booed off stage if we weren't playing their type of music.

It was a charity fundraiser!!!!

2] a showcase event, 45 minute set for beer. We all agreed via email and I confirmed. Then it was turned down as we weren't ready and didn't want to have our confidence knocked.

3] another charity event (payment in food & drink) and 4] an engagement party (probably very lucrative) ... both 2x 45 minute sets, both in summer .. lots of time between then and now.

I have had to decline both.

And of course, that makes me look a bit of a fickle git in those facebook groups now should I use that route again.

close2u

lloyd said:

Sorry to hear that, looks like you all have widely differing expectations so for that reason, you should get out.....

The big problem with walking away (and reforming with bass and new singer) is that drummers are hard to come by.....I'd still walk though.

Mmmhh.

It's tough ... and I'm dithering, but that is what my head tells me.

hubobulous

The biggest area of conflict we have in the band is choosing songs. Our drummer and bassist just aren't very good at identifying what will be fun to play whilst being enjoyable for the audience.

So we go round the houses a little, but we always get there in the end. And by this I don't mean that I'm always right. Its more that stuff like Jethro Tull isn't going to work for us, even though its suggested by them...!!

It sounds as though your singer just doesn't want to compromise on anything. All the work has to be done by someone else. I mean, why isn't she creating the mp3s in a different key? Its cos she's lazy and is already setting the precedent that its her way or the highway. And she won't change, cos people generally don't.

I understand that there's not much option for you in your neck of the woods, so perhaps its now about how you manage her. If you're already not enjoying it and are considering changes, it probably gives you the psychological opportunity to be more assertive. I mean, what's she going to do? Quit?

....and what do you do when the singer and drummer fall out?

close2u

hubobulous said:

The biggest area of conflict we have in the band is choosing songs.

And our cheesiest songs are the singers choices. Her inspirations being musical theatre and Glee (she is involved in youth performing arts). And the ones that she has said she can't sing are fantastic.

hubobulous said:

I understand that there's not much option for you in your neck of the woods, so perhaps its now about how you manage her. If you're already not enjoying it and are considering changes, it probably gives you the psychological opportunity to be more assertive. I mean, what's she going to do? Quit?

Good point.

hubobulous said:

....and what do you do when the singer and drummer fall out?

Indeed!