Too many solos not enough ideas

monquixote

Now I'm playing two hour sets in a 4 piece I play a LOT of solos. 

I'm used to playing with brass or keys where I'd be taking a third of the solos, but now I find I'm doing so many that I run out of ideas to differentiate them and make them interesting. A lot are over a couple of static 7 chords so don't really inspire in terms of melodic playing. 

Inspire me help me find new things to do. 

Maybe I need to learn to shred a bit more?

sweepy

Time to nick phrases from the melodies, probably a good discipline to get into, makes solos a lot more memorable imho

mike_l

Get some David Gilmour and Adrian Smith leads learned. Should get you going on the right foot.

viz

Are they tonic 7 chords or dominant 7 chords?

Teetonetal

Genre?

But try to think about your solos before you play them... I am also doing a lot of lead guitar in my current band, which is something I haven't really done before. My approach has been to get a loose structure to all of my solos... the band originally wanted unset improvisations, but too much of that ends up just meandering . 

Think a lot about melody, structure, pickup choice, pedal choice. Get your band to play dynamically with you. Don't be afraid to repeat a few licks in solos, just don't over do it... every good soloing guitarist has a signature... DG has is bends, Hendrix his double stops... Kirk Hammett his dodgy scales choice....

So now I have 

• 4 songs where I pretty much have a set solo - I thought a lot about the melody of these and they take ideas from the singers line. These ones are my best solos always, because I and the band know what's coming up they build the most effectively.
  
• 4 songs where the intro and outro are the same (so a riff) and in between is an improve with a loose structure
  
• 4 songs where I 100% improvise.
  
• remaining songs I have a rough idea of what I am going to do, but it is not set. Kinda lick launch pads if you like. 
  

Not saying my solos are great, but I get more good comments than bad

Danny1969

I know the problem you got, it's the chords behind that make normal melodic lines sound less than interesting. You would be better off thinking like a brass player and using a lot of stabs with 3rd or 5th double stops

spacecadet

Something that has always stuck in my head is what Paul Gilbert (CLANG!) said to me once. I said I was in a bit of a rut and not getting inspired and he told me to go and listen to/ learn/ steal horn parts. I found it odd but it's actually quite easy and you can get some really tasty stuff from it. Don't stop at horns either. Steal piano licks, violin, harmonic etc. Essentially any other instrument. You will find you have to play differently and most importantly think differently and you should be able to come up with some cool stuff. 

mike_l

Teetonetal said:

 Kirk Hammett his dodgy scales choice....

Using the pentatonic isn't dodgy.

It's the wrong notes he uses that are dodgy.

 

EricTheWeary

Learning to play stuff is over rated and under appreciated.

You want:
The wah solo
The fuzz solo
The weird delay setting solo
The slide solo
The all in octaves pseudo jazz solo
The Dick Dale style tremolo picked solo
The play very few notes tasteful blues solo
The make weird pings with harmonics and whammy shakes solo
The quote a theme tune solo ( I nicked throwing in the intro to the Flinstones from Joanne Shaw Taylor)
The play chords increasingly higher up the neck solo
The pseudo chicken pickin solo.

That's probably half the set, just scatter those tasteful melodic solos around a bit and you're done. Nobody wants two hours of songs with tasteful melodic solos. Really, nobody.

monquixote

viz said:

Are they tonic 7 chords or dominant 7 chords?

The ones I have a problem with are mostly Dom7s though I have a few Minor 7s, but they allow a bit of Dorian fusiony noodling which makes it more interesting.

MatthewShreddery

Over 7th chords which don't resolve to the tonic, try using melodic minor up a 5th.

e.g if you are playing over D7, play A minor melodic.

What kind of gig is it?

Does it really need all those solos?

monquixote

MatthewShreddery said:

Over 7th chords which don't resolve to the tonic, try using melodic minor up a 5th.

e.g if you are playing over D7, play A minor melodic.

What kind of gig is it?

Does it really need all those solos?

Cheers I'll try that. 

It's soul / funk covers and I'd much rather be playing fewer solos, but a lot of classic soul tracks are 2:30  long and you do need to beef the arrangements up quite a bit otherwise you need to learn hundreds of songs. Other things are where you play a song like Sweet Home Alabama which has 3 solos in it. 

steamabacus

There's a Zappa quote that has always guided my approach to soloing....

  "My solos are speech-influenced rhythmically; and harmonically, they're either pentatonic, or poly-scale oriented. And there's the mixolydian mode that I also use a lot...But I'm more interested in melodic things. I think the biggest challenge when you go to play a solo is trying to invent a melody on the spot."

Especially that first bit, "speech-influenced rythmically" - try playing to a set of 'imaginary lyrics' when you come to the solo (whether from the song itself or something ludicrously inane, no-one's going to actually hear them). I find this forces you to simplify what you play to something much more melodic and rhythmically interesting, much catchier and much more accessible to your average listener.

Mind you, there's still times for a bit of flash widdling to get a bit of sheer energy going!

monquixote

mike_l said:

Get some David Gilmour and Adrian Smith leads learned. Should get you going on the right foot.

The problem is that Floyd progressions are usually lovely to solo over whereas I'm working over static 7 chords which are really dull!

monquixote

Danny1969 said:

I know the problem you got, it's the chords behind that make normal melodic lines sound less than interesting. You would be better off thinking like a brass player and using a lot of stabs with 3rd or 5th double stops

@danny1969 Spot on. 

Do you have any example vids or anything demonstrating this?

mike_l

monquixote said:

mike_l said:

Get some David Gilmour and Adrian Smith leads learned. Should get you going on the right foot.

The problem is that Floyd progressions are usually lovely to solo over whereas I'm working over static 7 chords which are really dull!

I meant learn some of his licks to se over the chords.

 

If there's anything book, or DVD-wise I have you need/want to borrow just ask.

daveww

As you're in a funk band your sense of rhythm and timing is probably very good. Try thinking more about the rythm and fitting it to the song. With repeated notes, instead of lots of single ones and double stops etc. if you can experiment with leaving lots of space.

EricTheWeary

There was an Arlen Roth DVD ( probably a video originally) where he looked at guitar in a 3 peice. Blues based I think ( Double Trouble playing behind him) but from the excerts he was looking at harmonising scales, octaves, hybrid picking style approaches. There's a couple of copies cheap used on amazon.
I think there's a conversation to be had with the band about other ways of lengthening short songs ( playing ska the 2:30 song is not unfamiliar) rather than just add guitar solo. I don't mean drum or bass solos! This may even be inventing a solo section so you can solo over changes and not a static E9. I saw the Family Stone last year and they played a Greatest Hits set and made about 5 funk songs last an hour with added sections, sing alongs, the odd solo, bit of story telling.

hobbio

mike_l said:

Teetonetal said:

 Kirk Hammett his dodgy scales choice....

Using the pentatonic isn't dodgy.

It's the wrong notes he uses that are dodgy.

 

Nah, it's the out of tune bends and perma-wah that are dodgy.


It's all gone a bit TGP...

monquixote

Teetonetal said:

Genre?

But try to think about your solos before you play them... I am also doing a lot of lead guitar in my current band, which is something I haven't really done before. My approach has been to get a loose structure to all of my solos... the band originally wanted unset improvisations, but too much of that ends up just meandering . 

Think a lot about melody, structure, pickup choice, pedal choice. Get your band to play dynamically with you. Don't be afraid to repeat a few licks in solos, just don't over do it... every good soloing guitarist has a signature... DG has is bends, Hendrix his double stops... Kirk Hammett his dodgy scales choice....

So now I have 

• 4 songs where I pretty much have a set solo - I thought a lot about the melody of these and they take ideas from the singers line. These ones are my best solos always, because I and the band know what's coming up they build the most effectively.
  
• 4 songs where the intro and outro are the same (so a riff) and in between is an improve with a loose structure
  
• 4 songs where I 100% improvise.
  
• remaining songs I have a rough idea of what I am going to do, but it is not set. Kinda lick launch pads if you like. 
  

Not saying my solos are great, but I get more good comments than bad

I think at the moment it's just that too many of my solos are going into the latter category of being 100% improvised as I just haven't had the time to write something. 

Songs which I don't feel are working ATM are:

Cissy Strut - Static Bb 7

Heatwave - Minor 7 I IV V progression

The Chicken - Dom7s mostly Bb

Sweet Home - D C G

Give me one reason - F# 12 bar

Mustang - 12 bar

Long Train - Static G minor 7

Proud Mary - Mostly static D

Teetonetal

mike_l said:

Teetonetal said:

 Kirk Hammett his dodgy scales choice....

Using the pentatonic isn't dodgy.

It's the wrong notes he uses that are dodgy.

 

Solo to enter sandman springs to mind...