Mortgage declined - Structurally unsound! Help

gusman2x

We're planning on buying a 130 y/o semi. We viewed it a couple of times and on the basis of the viewings we wanted to get a good homebuyers survey. Found a well recommended guy, and had him do the the survey. Some bits and bobs came back as expected, but in general he was happy with the integrity of the building, and it;s sale value.

The lender (Post Office) carried out a basic/free valuation, and have come back and said it's structurally unsound. I haven't been able to talk to my broker yet (you know, the guy that gets paid), but I'm wondering how receptive lenders will be to accepting a structural engineer's report (which I'll now have to get done) along with my own homebuyers survey.

Anyone have any experience of this type of stress inducing ballache?

 

Cirrus

When we bought our house our mortgage-provider-to-be had a valuation done where they found rising damp, as a result of which they knocked £10,000 off the amount they were prepared to lend us which would have turned the sale into a no-go.

We hadn't seen anything particularly off while looking round the property so we paid a surveyor to do a proper damp survey and report back to us. He said there was signs of condensation damage on some of the internal walls, most probably caused by regularly drying washing inside with inadequate ventilation - and he spotted a couple of things like plants covering vent holes outside the house. There was also a leak in the bay window at the front. He couldn't see any signs of rising damp. We sent a copy of that report to the mortgage lender, and on that basis they were happy to give us the amount we'd asked. That was three years ago, the plaster's not falling off the walls yet.
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richardhomer

Normally the valuer for the mortgage lender would state that there is evidence of structural movement and that a structural engineer should be instructed to establish the cause and whether it is progressive (ie on-going/recent) or of a long-standing nature.

It is unusual that they valuer would state it is an unsuitable security for mortgage purposes without an engineers report.

I note you are based in Manchester. I know an excellent structural engineer in the area.

fretmeister

Generally speaking if I got an opinion that a house was unsound - I'd want at least 2 opinions that it wasn't before I invested in it.

And I'd damn sure demand sight of the Surveyors professional insurance certificate before I bought it too.

gusman2x

Thanks everyone.

Well I think it looks like I'll need to get a Structural Engineer's report done now anyway, but I was worried that lenders would not entertain independent reports. Most stuff I've found online would suggest that if a lender has concerns based on it's own appointed survey, then they stipulate an engineers report. However, the PO just said no. Should have realised. Wankers can't even deliver the post before 1pm.

rsvmark

It is unlikely that the 'free valuation' carried out by the PO was carried out by a structural engineer and more likely some sort of surveyor. Request evidence and specific details of how they have reached that conclusion and pass this onto the structural engineer prior to his doing the survey.

It may be that a bay window or a recent extension may have 'moved' but that doesn't mean the whole building is unsound and a simple repairs can't be undertaken.

Part of the game I am afraid.

richardhomer

No mortgage lender uses structural engineers to carry out valuations and surveys - they use qualified surveyors - a totally different qualification.

If the OP wishes to PM me - I used to be professionally involved in this stuff.

I would NOT invest in an engineers report before a) you know whether the post office will change their view if it is favourable and b) you have explored whether the seller will meet the cost.

gusman2x

rsvmark said:

It may be that a bay window or a recent extension may have 'moved' but that doesn't mean the whole building is unsound and a simple repairs can't be undertaken.

@rsvmark I think that's pretty much it. There is a protruding/bay type window at the front that has moved. I was concerned on the 2nd viewing hence why I got a homebuyers survey. The surveyor reckoned he was 95% sure it was historical (probably shortly after being built with nothing more that seasonal breathing going on now. Similar situation at the back, but the adjoining wall with next door (a cottage attached onto a big house).

There  is also a reasonable amount of damp marks on the internal walls. The seller said that water had got in due to roof damage and they didn't know for a while as they live abroad. The roof has been repaired. The surveyor checked, and all the internal walls were dry. I also had a reputable roofer check out the roof externally and internally. A bit of TLC required, but it's watertight and sound.

Sounds like the PO just did a drive by. I just don't know whether they will be receptive to independent information or not. If not, then I'll go with another lender as we really believe that the house is right for us. We just need to be sure it's a lender that will take into account structural reports.

rsvmark

So next step is to assess the scale of the issue. In all things it's buyer beware and the home buyers survey is real at best a cursory glance. They are employed by the lender for valuation purposes and should not be considered as subject matter experts.

Assuming it's the house of your dreams, get structural engineers survey and request that they provide advice as to what structural measures are required to address the problem. I have a different view to @richardhomer in that if you get it done, you do not have to share/disclose the content to anyone unless you wish to. Then get a builder or 2 to give an estimate of those structural works. Then get your negotiating head on. Most buyers will use this as leverage to negotiate the price downwards to reflect the cost of the work.

While it's dead money, if it's the house of your dreams its a few hundred quid.

On the other hand, if you are not that bothered, and you are happy to take a risk, negotiate the price down with a lender that is prepared to work with you.

Or.....walk away and find another house.

Very much depends on you, your appetite for risk, your lender and how much you like the house.

gusman2x

rsvmark said:

So next step is to assess the scale of the issue. In all things it's buyer beware and the home buyers survey is real at best a cursory glance. They are employed by the lender for valuation purposes and should not be considered as subject matter experts.

Assuming it's the house of your dreams, get structural engineers survey and request that they provide advice as to what structural measures are required to address the problem. I have a different view to @richardhomer in that if you get it done, you do not have to share/disclose the content to anyone unless you wish to. Then get a builder or 2 to give an estimate of those structural works. Then get your negotiating head on. Most buyers will use this as leverage to negotiate the price downwards to reflect the cost of the work.

While it's dead money, if it's the house of your dreams its a few hundred quid.

On the other hand, if you are not that bothered, and you are happy to take a risk, negotiate the price down with a lender that is prepared to work with you.

Or.....walk away and find another house.

Very much depends on you, your appetite for risk, your lender and how much you like the house.

Well, I did talk it over at length with the surveyor, and it was him that recommended a homebuyers over a full condition, or even structural report. He has excellent references and has made a career of surveying these type of properties in this area.

I was able to give him plenty of photos I'd taken on the viewing,a nd he looked into my key concerns.

Looks like I'll have to get a structural evaluation either way now. I would imagine if the movement is historic (and I believe it is) as opposed to progressive, then hopefully I won't have to do anything immediately, or as a condition of a mortgage.

As for if it's the house of my dreams...I'm afraid it is, so it's going to be a case of whatever it takes. 

Iamnobody

I'm pretty sure the basic lender survey highlighted similar evidence of movement on the house we just bought but it didn't stop them offering the dosh (we had a good deposit so LTV wasn't that high).

Our own full survey basically said get the bay tied back into main structure.

Old houses cost money and need a lot of maintenance!