Train wreck, Dumble etc

hywelg

ToneControl said:

hywelg said:

@ToneControl, nice to see you on here, the Ceriatone forum seems to have died.

I just tried it, seems to work, hi there btw!!

I meant in a contributions sort of way, not a Musicradar way!

ThePrettyDamned

I'd love to support UK builders, but I don't have the dollar.

The next guitar I build will be UK made, with a UK bridge setup, and UK finish. I do try, but it has taken me a few months to get the funds for it. Still costs less than a USA prs, even used! Just... Maybe.

With amps, I have 2 guitars and a bass but I can only afford and have room for one amp. Which is fine - because these days, a single amp can cover a lot of ground for a bedroom musician, or someone who just jams with friends, or even gig several genres.

If I was more serious, I'd look for specific tones from multiple amps. But most 2 channel amps have nice cleans, crunch and lead sounds that cover pop to hard rock to blues to country and back again. You just need to play to the amp strengths. When you combine this with 3 guitars, one with buckers, one single coil and one p90, you get a lot from one amp!

I would love new amp tech that actually creates new, exciting sounds - I like solid state tones, but there are very few good examples. I suspect a combination of a lack of interest in modern design and the massive research and development costs makes it impossible for small UK outfits to do anything more unique than a twist on a classic design, whereas an American company could possibly make that back. Besides, there is no way I could afford the price of a high r+d UK built solid state or multi channel high gain amp.

That said, if an amp tech can build classic circuits for those who want it and increase their earnings a little bit, I'm all up for it. Gotta keep our skilled folks skilled so they can fix the shit I throw their way

ToneControl

hywelg said:

ToneControl said:

hywelg said:

@ToneControl, nice to see you on here, the Ceriatone forum seems to have died.

I just tried it, seems to work, hi there btw!!

I meant in a contributions sort of way, not a Musicradar way!

yes, I can't detect a pulse

Axe_meister

SRV played a Dumble in his latter days, never mind the weather and family style I think we're recorded with a Dumble

koneguitarist

Some good points raised. The price of a Vox AC30 reissue is more due to import tax and shipping cost in USA than their boutique amps are at home. Or at least in same ball park. And I don't think anyone can deny that Carr,Matchless and the like are as good if not better than the Vox. However swap the country around and the Carr and Matchless amps are way over the cost of UK built amps here. So costs play an important part, as do what musicians get paid for gigs. Would love to do a shoot out between a AC30 vs a Matchless and Marshall DSL 100 vs a Soldano. And then we would be able to get a more accurate view. Not sure if UK does a TW or Dumble type amp?

IvisonGuitars

That's an interesting thought @koneguitarist but what are you trying to achieve from that shoot out? All those amps sound totally different (bar the AC30/Matchless)?

koneguitarist

No, just wondering about quality of tones between so called boutique and uk made amps. I only used Soldano as a rock head like Marshall, and Matchless v Vox as EL84 type amps. There are great amps either side of pond and most (minus import taxes) are fairly priced, you want quality you pay for it. However when someone says an amp is worth £20-30,000 I have to ask why, and how do they get to be so overpriced?

martinw

koneguitarist said:

However when someone says an amp is worth £20-30,000 I have to ask why, and how do they get to be so overpriced?

Well, I think that's been answered in this thread, hasn't it?

Edit: ....and a listening test won't do it. The reason for the prices asked being not entirely about sound quality.

koneguitarist

I agree, I wasn't re-asking the question, just talking about my thoughts etc. I have no problem with someone asking a lot of money for their amps, as they are not cheap to make when handwiring etc, if I had the money I would love a Carr, or a Matchless Hotcat 15 which I fell in love with one time. This thread is not to knock hand built quality amps of which there are many, but to see if anyone could justify the sheer costs of the Dumble or TW amps, and apart from saying top names use them they can't.

Dave_Mc

martinw said:

koneguitarist said:

However when someone says an amp is worth £20-30,000 I have to ask why, and how do they get to be so overpriced?

Well, I think that's been answered in this thread, hasn't it?

Edit: ....and a listening test won't do it. The reason for the prices asked being not entirely about sound quality.

I dunno martin, if you listen to TGP you just can't get that robben ford chirp without a dumble... >:D<

martinw

Dave_Mc said:

I dunno martin, if you listen to TGP you just can't get that robben ford chirp without a dumble... >:D<

Ha! Yeah

Heartfeltdawn

I don't think of Dumbles, Trainwrecks, 1959 Les Pauls etc as instruments. The rarity of them pushes them straight into the 'collectible investment' category just as this Ferrari moves on from being a car to an investment opportunity. 

http://rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1061975

As ever, a Dumble thread does nothing to shake away the image that it's sonic nirvana for those looking for the perfect snoozeblues tone. 

I don't think attitudes are that different between the UK and North America. The majority of guitarists I saw in Toronto when I lived there were using very normal affordable gear. People talk about gear prices in the UK versus the US. I know that gear was more expensive in Canada than in England when I considered the average wage of both places. 

TGP is not representative of the majority of North America guitarists. Thank goodness!

Bucket

photek said:

 Not a specific song but is enough for me to want one. The '59 probably helps From 2:10 it starts

That sounds wonderful.

ourmaninthenorth

Think a listening test does quite a lot really.... 

Acquiring the amp of course is a different kettle of fish all together, as Martin has already hinted at, for reasons more akin to the Financial Times than Guitarist magazine.

b-(

Dave_Mc

martinw said:

Dave_Mc said:

I dunno martin, if you listen to TGP you just can't get that robben ford chirp without a dumble... >:D<

Ha! Yeah

Heartfeltdawn said:

I don't think of Dumbles, Trainwrecks, 1959 Les Pauls etc as instruments. The rarity of them pushes them straight into the 'collectible investment' category just as this Ferrari moves on from being a car to an investment opportunity. 

http://rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1061975

Agreed.

Bucket said:

photek said:

 Not a specific song but is enough for me to want one. The '59 probably helps From 2:10 it starts

That sounds wonderful.

Sure. Problem is, do they sound good enough relative to their cost? I dunno, maybe they do (or maybe it's all in the feel and it doesn't come across in vids). But (and as I said, I haven't tried them and could well be wrong) I have to query whether I couldn't get a sound "close enough" to that (if that's the sound I wanted) for much, much less money. Again, if you're Robben Ford or Bonamassa or whoever who's making a living from it, it may well make sense financially. Or even if you're loaded and viewing it as an investment. But for the average player...

More importantly, though, I feel I have to question what the guys in those two Trainwreck vids are wearing. Seriously. What? )

wave100

Dave_Mc said:

 Again, if you're Robben Ford or Bonamassa or whoever who's making a living from it, it may well make sense financially.


Plus if you're making a living from it it's all tax deductible....

pluckbuddy

Just to add that although many of our favourite bands will have made great music using fenders, marshalls, voxes and the rest, I imagine many a pop song, iconic film score, annoying jingle or whatever else will have been made with recording studio-owned Trainwrecks or Dumbles. Those amps help to justify their cost by making money for their owners. And of course having top of the line equipment helps a top studio justify its reputation as a top studio. For individuals, judging their cost vs quality of sound is tricky because tone and value for money are subjective. In a business however you can judge market value of a piece of equipment against how much business it brings in and go from there.

Dave_Mc

wave100 said:

Plus if you're making a living from it it's all tax deductible....

Yeah probably )

koneguitarist

pluckbuddy said:

Just to add that although many of our favourite bands will have made great music using fenders, marshalls, voxes and the rest, I imagine many a pop song, iconic film score, annoying jingle or whatever else will have been made with recording studio-owned Trainwrecks or Dumbles. Those amps help to justify their cost by making money for their owners. And of course having top of the line equipment helps a top studio justify its reputation as a top studio. For individuals, judging their cost vs quality of sound is tricky because tone and value for money are subjective. In a business however you can judge market value of a piece of equipment against how much business it brings in and go from there.

Good reply, hadn't thought that way. Have a wisdom.