University tuition fees.

Hertz32

Much as I hate the tories and wish we had a Lib Dem government, I kinda have to make do.
I'll be going to university in a year and a bits time, and the tories "havent ruled out" a further tuition fee rise to 11,500 a year.
Being new to this politics lark, I can't even think to try and predict how likely this is.

All I will say is, they better fucking not.

Drew_TNBD

I regret going to university.

No, scratch that... I regret doing an arts degree.

Do something worthwhile with your degree, and get some real world experience.

Hertz32

It's between creative music technology at Falmouth or Sussex, or Primary school education in a scottish university.

Drew_TNBD

The later will give you more job satisfaction. The end jobs for both fields aren't terribly well paid though.

Hertz32

Well paid is relative, if I can support a family, pay for GAS, own a car and have a mortgage then I'm happy. In london I might have to earn 50k+ a year to do that. In the north, maybe 35k. (Obviously I'm thinking in a combined income scenario)

Either way, I'd rather be a secondary school teacher. Primary is at my mothers insistance.

I'm doing BTEC business, and A Level RS, Biology and General studies. Probably looking to get Grade 8 music theory and performing by the end of next year.

Thanks to my school only offering me those, completely unrelated subjects there is no logical career progression for me.

Gassage

it is a fucking disgrace that this situation exists.

Utterly inhumane.

chrispy108

The increase in tuition fees won't affect you unless you earn a lot of money, and even then not for a long time.

The recent changes helped a lot of people, as you don't pay back until you are earning more. A lot of people will never pay back all their fees, and this is deliberate.

If you're doing Biology have you considered becoming a Secondary science teacher? You can do it as an Undergrad degree, or take the traditional route of a BSc and then a PGCE.

Either way, teaching isn't badly paid anymore, £23k starting salary (outside London), and I know people who have been teaching for 3 years on £42k. You'll never be a millionaire, but there are an awful lot of nice cars in the car park. https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/competitive-salary-and-great-benefits

Gassage

chrispy108 said:

The increase in tuition fees won't affect you unless you earn a lot of money, and even then not for a long time.

The recent changes helped a lot of people, as you don't pay back until you are earning more. A lot of people will never pay back all their fees, and this is deliberate.

Really?

let's go back to grants and paid tuition fees. That's the only way forward.

guitargeek62

Speaking as a recent grad, I can't honestly say I'm against the idea.

Plenty of support exists to provide students with funding, so it's not like you need to pay up front if you can't afford it*. The repayments are very fair too imo, and although it would be nice to have that extra little bit in my bank per month, it's a small price to pay compared to what my degree has gained for me in options.

I also feel that higher fees adds weight to making students genuinely consider if they should go in for a degree. There are a great deal of courses out there that really do not need to be degrees, and would be of more benefit if delivered in other ways. For instance, there can't be too many arts degrees whereby the paper is worth more than your portfolio in the real world? It's not necessarily a bad thing to reduce the intake numbers by prompting students to reconsider, it might also start to add value back into actually having a degree in the first-place, rather than it just being another tick in the box along with 3 C's at A-level etc.

chrispy108

I'm not saying it's a perfect system, but it isn't an obstacle to going to University. It's unsecured debt that is basically hypothetical, it doesn't affect you in any way other than paying slightly more tax when you are earning well. It's not a constant burden, unless you worry about stuff you don't need to.

I'm not talking on principle either, I added £13,500 to my student loan this year, on top of the remainder from my undergrad. It's not even an investment in my future, because if I don't earn I won't pay. It's the no-win no-fee of self improvement.

If I was in charge everyone in the country would get a universal benefit, no matter what, that those earning would pay back with a flat rate tax. I don't understand why students are allowed to borrow less money than those on unemployment benefit are given.

Drew_TNBD

Hertz32 said:

Well paid is relative, if I can support a family, pay for GAS, own a car and have a mortgage then I'm happy. In london I might have to earn 50k+ a year to do that. In the north, maybe 35k. (Obviously I'm thinking in a combined income scenario)

Either way, I'd rather be a secondary school teacher. Primary is at my mothers insistance.

I'm doing BTEC business, and A Level RS, Biology and General studies. Probably looking to get Grade 8 music theory and performing by the end of next year.

Thanks to my school only offering me those, completely unrelated subjects there is no logical career progression for me.

I work in the music industry, and I don't make £35k a year, and I'm coming up to my 9th year. Depends on the job of course, but you wont make £35k a year in a music tech job.

Most primary school teachers seem to make £20k a year when starting out.

RocknRollDave

Drew_fx said:

Hertz32 said:

Well paid is relative, if I can support a family, pay for GAS, own a car and have a mortgage then I'm happy. In london I might have to earn 50k+ a year to do that. In the north, maybe 35k. (Obviously I'm thinking in a combined income scenario)

Either way, I'd rather be a secondary school teacher. Primary is at my mothers insistance.

I'm doing BTEC business, and A Level RS, Biology and General studies. Probably looking to get Grade 8 music theory and performing by the end of next year.

Thanks to my school only offering me those, completely unrelated subjects there is no logical career progression for me.

I work in the music industry, and I don't make £35k a year, and I'm coming up to my 9th year. Depends on the job of course, but you wont make £35k a year in a music tech job.

Most primary school teachers seem to make £20k a year when starting out.

£32k combined income with his missus, he meant, I think?

musicegbdf

We need more male primary teachers . The balance of of female teachers in primary education I seem to recall has held back boys. Can't recall the study , but understand it came to this conclusion. A career in music usually does not pay well , and suspect a degree helps much.

Hertz32

@chrispy108 I have considered Biology teaching, I've also seen my report card. The only reason I am doing Biology A level is because I got an A in it at GCSE and it's the subject my school wrote down for me as a result. I'm hopeless at biology, and most of the course is Biochemistry now which I cannot do to save my life. I got a B in Chemistry GCSE and that was a miracle.

For the record I got AAABBBCCCD in my GCSE's.

English literature  A
Maths A
Biology A
Physics B
Chemistry B
English Language B
RS C
Geography C
Music C (it's a long story, but it doesn't represent the actual quality of my work)
German D

The english lit A level was oversubscribed so I was denied access to that. I tried maths for all of 2 weeks before moving to RS.
I'm doing Biology
Physics was my 1st choice A level, but just missed out on the A that I required to do it.
Chemistry was never going to be a viable choice for me at A level.
English Language is not offered at my school.
I'm doing RS.
Geography, I was on course for an A until I completely flunked one of the exams as I had been up for 48 hours beforehand and I completed the whole paper when I only had to do half. I didn't get the essay questions written down.
Music, was all classically focused. As is the A level.
I did a foundation German paper, and the listening parer was conducted in such a manner as I couldn't actually hear the tape.


I am familiar with the student loans system and how you only have to pay it back if you earn more than 21k a year (Seriously?! if you live in london, you need every penny of that you can get) and I am sick and tired of the "Some people will never pay it back" excuse because it's FUCKING BOLLOCKS. The only way you can earn less than 21k a year for the 30 or so years it takes them to write the debt off is if you basically live off benefits or similar, cash in hand/zero hours/ minimum wage jobs for 30 years. Which is fairly uncommon if you are a graduate.

Cameron promises to create 3 million new apprenticeships for young learners, these apprenticeships either don't pay, or pay £2 an hour odd. He's hiding unemployment AGAIN.

Hertz32

I could always do the music tech degree, followed by either a PGCE qualification or another 3 years of university doing the primary education degree? it would push the debt back another few years.

If I got a 1st in a MT degree, along with my BTEC Business, maybe I could go into a British music company such as Marshall, Orange or Laney? Work as a product rep for them pulling in maybe 19/20k a year doing the whole NAMM/Musikmesse thing? I know Laney are based in Sheffield, I love it there.

Hertz32

Also, whoever LOL'ed my second post is a twat.

Gassage

Hertz32 said:

Also, whoever LOL'ed my second post is a twat.

Don't let on, but I happen to know it was @ttony

chrispy108

I didn't say no one ever pays anything, I said few people pay all of it. If you don't pay all of it, it doesn't matter if there is a quid left or £100,000 left does it? To pay back £50,000 over 30 years you'd have to earn an average of £39,518. If you've done that do you mind having paid it back?

My point isn't to be flippant about student loans or to say everyone should go to Uni, it's so say don't be put off by Uni just because of the fees. They shouldn't really come into your decision, your career plan should.

Apprenticeships aren't highly paid, but it's a genuine alternative to paying for a University education in some sectors.

You'd have to check the funding for undergrad teaching qualifications, I'm not sure you'd get student loan if you've already had one.

Your plan for Music Tech > Rep for a company might work, but do they want the degree? You might be able to get a job like that by working your way up within a music shop and moving across, and also there are only going to be a small number of jobs in that field.

You need to go and get some proper, independent, careers advice. Your school has a legal duty to provide this. It should be someone from an external agency in most cases, if not check out what the council or library offer.

Hertz32

@chrispy108 whether you pay all of it or not, it's a large amount of tax at a time when you don't need it.

I'm not arguing that apprenticeships are worthless, I'm saying cameron is using them to hide his problems, regardless of whether they are actually the right thing for you.

I think you can actually get a grant paying for a primary education degree if you go into primary education afterwards that's separate to a student loan.

Aye, and that's partly the reason Sussex uni is my current 1st choice. I could hopefully get a job at GAK and work from there. A combined Music tech degree, alongside experience in music retail would look great!

My school does have independent advice, however they're "one of the top grammar sixth forms in the country" so all the careers advice is from someone who they have approved due to her shared desire to push us to do "pure" subjects at oxbridge.

Drew_TNBD

Dude... I've really gotta be honest here, I really don't think working at GAK is going to get you where you want. Not really. The music tech industry *rarely* recruits from retail, because people in retail don't have the skills required. Likewise, techy folks make lousy sales people.

A large proportion of the interns we get (some of which then go on to be full time staff) come from Queen Mary university, and they most often are doing music tech or software engineering courses. But the number one thing we look for is a passion for music software, as we are a software company. Box tickers and academic achievers don't really interest us.

chrispy108

It really isn't a large amount of tax. If you're earning £25k it's £60 a month, on top of the £410 you're already paying. That's nothing compared to what you've borrowed is it? You've lived (or the majority of your living expenses anyway) for 3 years on what you've borrowed, so paying back £60 a month doesn't seem much.

I used to live in Brighton, I'd be surprised if GAK employ 30 staff in total and it's one of the most expensive cities in the country. All the other music tech students will have the same idea. That's a really specific plan you've made yourself.

You definately won't get a grant to pay your primary teaching fees, the only bursary is for final year Physics/Maths Teacher undergrads, although you might get small scholarships/grants from Universities. Please go and research all of this properly. Sign up to the website I linked above, and go spend a few days in a Primary school NOW to see how you find it. 

Go get advice from elsewhere then, look into what your council or library offer.

Don't leave all this up to someone else, this is your life.