University tuition fees.

Drew_TNBD

hugbot said:

I think the whole system of going straight into uni from school is wrong, most people should enter the working world for at least a little bit then go (even if the only thing you learn is how shit it is looking for work, inspiring you to work your balls off at uni).

That's what I ended up doing. I worked for a few years in a Morrisons warehouse doing stock takes.

Hertz32

@heartfeltdawn much as I want to agree with you, with more people going than ever before, its now strange not to go to university. If you mention not going to university, the majority of people I know will pour scorn on you from their very high horse. 

I have been considering the possibility of a gap year to play and learn as much as I can about music and then making a more informed choice following that. I could do a Higher Diploma at ICMP, which would get me a Level 5 BTEC in music performance in a year. Perhaps @Bucket could weigh in on that idea? 

I'd then have a high level music qualification and portfolio should wish to take that in a Music Tech direction. I'd also have a music performance qualification, which could be combined with a teaching degree and point me towards primary school teaching music? 

shuikit

Having gone through the previous loan system I think that the current one is much fairer, it just isn't explained well and has had much bad press. The amount that you owe is largely irrelevant as most people (if anyone) will ever pay the whole amount back. Any debt remaining after 30 years is wiped clear and you only pay 9% above the earning threshold, currently 21k. So if you never earn over the threshold in 30 years then you don't pay a penny back. What this means is that someone who earns more after uni pays more back Have a look at this link which is a good explanation http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

shuikit

Just to add to the couple of posts saying make sure that you're sure you want to do it before starting, funding gets really complicated if you drop out. I don't know the exact details off the top of my head, but it's something like you can get a student loan for your 1st degree under the terms in my previous link. If say you drop out half way through the first year and want to start a different course the following year then you won't get a loan to cover the first year of the new course, so you'll have to pay tuition and living costs though after that you can get a student loan to cover those.

chrispy108

Hertz32 said:

I could do a Higher Diploma at ICMP, which would get me a Level 5 BTEC in music performance in a year. 

I'd also have a music performance qualification, which could be combined with a teaching degree and point me towards primary school teaching music? 

I can't see a BTEC in being in a band helping you get a job working in music tech anymore (maybe less) than gigging at a decent level would without the cost.

I don't think there are any/many full time jobs teaching music in primary schools, and those that are there would want traditional music grades and experience teaching music over a BTEC in music performance.

Heartfeltdawn

Hertz32 said:

@heartfeltdawn much as I want to agree with you, with more people going than ever before, its now strange not to go to university. If you mention not going to university, the majority of people I know will pour scorn on you from their very high horse. 

I'm not advocating that you don't go to university full stop. I'm advocating that you do it when you are a lot more sure that it is what you want to do. 

Bucket

Hertz32 said:

@heartfeltdawn much as I want to agree with you, with more people going than ever before, its now strange not to go to university. If you mention not going to university, the majority of people I know will pour scorn on you from their very high horse. 

I have been considering the possibility of a gap year to play and learn as much as I can about music and then making a more informed choice following that. I could do a Higher Diploma at ICMP, which would get me a Level 5 BTEC in music performance in a year. Perhaps @Bucket could weigh in on that idea? 

I'd then have a high level music qualification and portfolio should wish to take that in a Music Tech direction. I'd also have a music performance qualification, which could be combined with a teaching degree and point me towards primary school teaching music? 

The Higher Diploma might be worth considering, it does look like a very good course from a guitar-playing perspective. A few people I know on the BMus did it last year and are shit-hot players, and they said the HDip challenged them and made them better.

And you might think it's the case that "it's strange not to" - that is certainly the case at your school, I know because I was there and people looked at me as if I was an alien for going to ICMP instead of a more conventional uni. But out in the real world, far more people don't. I appreciate that it's all academic (if you'll pardon the pun) because you've decided that higher education is what you want, and I wouldn't dissuade you from that for the world because I think it's generally the best option too, but just thought I'd mention it.

NPP

guitarfishbay said:

I'd suggest thinking critically about it for your own sake - not the money, you can borrow that, the time. Time is the most valuable thing in your life. Find out what it is you want to do then focus on it and work hard. 

gave you a wisdom for the post @guitarfishbay but that's the bit that can't be emphasised enough so I'll quote it as well.

Don't waste your time doing something you don't want to do. Once you've committed to something, don't waste your time cutting corners, pretending it will be alright, you'll get your degree anyway etc. Yes, you'll get your degree but you'll have wasted three years of your life if you haven't learnt anything during that time. I am currently (more accurately, I have just stopped) marking 1st year university exam papers and it is easy to see who's currently wasting their time, who's playing by the rules though not getting much out of the whole exercise beyond acceptable marks and who's actually making progress.  

thomasross20

@mellowsun, totally agree.
Sorry chrispy but I'm at total odds to you on this one. The fees are outrageous. This generation is getting indebted to the hilt. I had total £15k loan and that took 7 years to pay off - and I was overpaying (I know, cheap loan, didn't have to) and lived at home on decent money.

Imagine coming out of uni with £40k+ debt, trying to get a 30 year mortgage for a sh!tbox costing a significant fraction of a million quid, raising a family, running a car, saving for pension. Seriously, just HOW HIGH do loan amounts have to be before people stop defending the current system? £70k debt? £100k? I'm of the mind that you should clear debt immediately but this generation really is being ripped off to pay for everybody else. For those sorts of fees good be WAY better off studying at a good American or European uni.

All I can say is I'm glad I have no more debt. That I won't be paying £60 a month or whatever figure for the rest of my days, having that hanging over my head. It's to easy to see it as just an extra couple tenners a month but that's masking the problem. I had a worse deal than those who went before me but you guys REALLY have a bad deal. I wouldn't do it again unless I was going to do something that really pays. Suggest OP looks at salary tables and calculates the cost of the life he wants to live in future (house, car, holidays, family, pension etc)

I did engineering because pay is ok (not amazing but good enough) and job is enjoyable. Definitely factor money into the equation when choosing a course...

chrispy108

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-repay

It isn't debt tigger. No matter how much you say it is or panic over it, it's a tax with a limit. Mine isn't 'hanging over my head', it's an investment I made in myself, that I'm only paying back when I earn, it's the kindest gamble you'll ever find. I'm not even into paying the tuition fees yet, 8 years after graduating and I had a good job before I graduated and a very good one 4 years after, I'm still paying the maintenance loan, so all I'm doing is repaying the money I personally spent to live/eat whilst a student, doesn't seem unreasonable.

As the interest is so low you actually cost yourself money by paying it back early, because you could have used that money to buy a car/house whatever and saved paying interest on it.

A 'few tenners' at 21 is worth much more to you than a 'few tenners' at 55.

As for the total amount, one, it doesn't ultimately matter because most people won't clear it, it has gone up to make people consider their education more and take it seriously, and to collect more money from people who end up raking it in after Uni. Two, the cost of education hasn't gone up, its always cost that much, it's just now more of it appears to the student. My Physics degree will have cost the Uni (and therefore the government) ~£60k, so if I end up a millionaire why shouldn't I pay back half of that? I've clearly benefited from the education.

guitargeek62

chrispy108;627191" said:

I had a great time at Uni, I got an internship during my second year I wouldn't have found out about otherwise which lead to a 8 year career. If I hadn't finished my degree I wouldn't have been able to start my second career as quickly, so it was a great backup.

Uni can be great, it can be a waste of time as they've guys have said. It's expensive, but if it gets you the career you want it is well worth it.

Please go and speak to a proper careers adviser, there are some fantastic people out their helping young people make good decisions.

Internships are key these days, I wouldn't even look at a course without a year-in-industry. If I hadn't taken mine, then I highly doubt I could have walked into a >£50k job straight out of uni.

chrispy108

Agreed that internships can be important, but mine wasnt a year in industry, it was in a totally different field, it was just advertised via my Uni intranet. My message would be to always be open to opportunities and take them, do more than just your degree.

lloyd

Paying for an education is an investment in yourself. It all comes out pre tax in your wage so you don't miss it and if you don't earn you don't pay. Also do the primary school thing not the music-shortage of blokes in teaching primary so you'll get snapped up in no time. Become a head and you're earning a decent wage. Not bankers money but way above the average.

thomasross20

@guitargeek, are you in programming or something?

Have to agree to disagree on this one, chrispy

guitargeek62

thomasross20;628192" said:

@guitargeek, are you in programming or something?

Have to agree to disagree on this one, chrispy

Sort of, I did general Computing so we touched on all the key areas. My main fields were data architectures, and service management; I'm now doing project management back at the same firm and looking to further things by beginning Six Sigma training for Business Process engineering. I wouldn't have focussed on either area if it hadn't been for the internship.

thomasross20

How long you been doing it? Sounds like you're on a damn good salary.
We do six sigma all the time, I'm amazed how some people can earn buckets doing such a simple thing!

guitargeek62

A whole year lol! I'm contracting, which helps, and it's a London salary for a Financial firm so that's a big part of it too.

The amazing thing about six sigma/BP management, is how much of it is overlooked already. It's mainly just taking the time (and money) to weed out ineffeciencies in the process.

chrispy108

thomasross20 said:

Have to agree to disagree on this one, chrispy

Well, I can see you aren't gonna change, and you've already wasted the money paying yours off anyway so it's too late

But, you're one of two people out of 100s I've known who went to Uni to feel it "hanging over them" and paid it off early. The only person holding the 'debt' over you was you.

Yes, it's something to take seriously, but you shouldn't be scared of it, and it shouldn't be a big part of your decision making process.

thomasross20

I completely disagree but that doesn't mean we can't be pals
Serious question - how high would the figure have to be to put you off?
Fact: today's loans will be at least 2-3x what mine cost. That sucks - generational lottery like housing.

Gg62 - wow, colour me envious!

chrispy108

Well indeed

Good question, under the current repayment terms, I'd still have done my PGCE if the terms were 9% of everything over £21k for the next 30 years, without a limit.

Yes, on paper they will be 2/3x more, but for the average person they will repay the same, or possibly less as the limit went up from £15k to £21k. Lots would say this is "fairer" than the old system as those who benefit more from their education pay more for it.

If it changed to an American system were it was genuine debt, paid back no matter what you're earning, then I'd have to think long and hard about it.