Les Paul wiring - is the wiring causing muddiness or do I need new pots?

chrishill901

My Les Paul (Vintage V100AFD) gets very muddy as soon as you roll off the treble. I read somewhere that the way some far eastern manufacturers wire is the cause of this - to eliminate losing signal in the middle position when one volume is rolled off they wire it in a way that causes this. Is this true?

I have drawn a very crude image of what my wiring looks like. It started off colour coded and then just got messy. The red from the pickup is the signal, black is ground. The two yellows that go off the top are to the switch and I havent bothered drawing the input jack wire as it goes straight to the switch, or the ground wire that goes to the bridge.

Would swapping the first and middle lugs around on the volumes help? I cant find a wiring diagram anywhere that looks like this.

http://i.imgur.com/0Vy13Ps.jpg

GuitarMonkey

Yes, it's wired with independednt volumes which sucks treble.

Swap the wires to pickup and switch as you suggest.

chrishill901

dont know, they seemed unmarked to me but im *cough* at work *cough* now so I cant look.

I am considering this wiring kit if i need to... http://www.axetec.co.uk/guitar_parts_uk_028.htm

GuitarMonkey

Before spending any money, just use what you have and rewire it like the Axetec diagram.

chrishill901

I was thinking to try that but is there a logical reason why that would eliminate my problem. Is there anything actually wrong with how it is wired now?

GuitarMonkey

"If you hook up the pickup to the middle lug, the amount of load ‘behind’ the input is what causes the decrease of volume when you roll down your volume. This wiring is called the ‘independent volume mod,’ because in the middle position you are now allowed to dial in the exact tone you want without sacrificing volume. In theory this might sound neat, but it does take out a huge amount of your high end."

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/tips-and-tricks/lespaulwiring/

chrishill901

That's super. I don't understand why but I will rewire tonight. Thank you for your help. I tried googling all of this but didn't understand a lot of the spiel.

So what do I sacrifice in the middle position by wiring a la axetec? Not that I use the middle position

stimpsonslostson

Would this work with my 2006 Les Paul Junior? (I've heard that it has "Modern wiring" rather than "50's style").

It's great when everything's on 10, but it gets muddy when you roll down- I expected it to do the chimey acoustic thing that my old SG Jr did (as illustrated at 2.15 in the attached video).

I love the way the guitar plays, so this could be really useful- especially as it seems like it's achievable for someone with minimal soldering experience.

stimpsonslostson

Since reading this post I've been doing some research… This is interesting and informative.

It makes me think that rewiring my junior is certainly the way to go to get the tone I want.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/tonefiend/pickups/vintage-les-paul-wiring-bs-or-bfd/

mart

chrishill901 said:

...
So what do I sacrifice in the middle position by wiring a la axetec? Not that I use the middle position

The "independent" wiring that you originally had means the two volume controls work independently. So if you turn the volume down completely on one pickup, the other pickup is still audible - at least, if your selector switch is in the middle! 

With the other way of wiring two volume pots, when you turn one control down all the way, it also turns the other pickup off when you're in the middle position.

If you never use the middle position it makes no difference. If you do, then you might find it a problem, or you might not. It's a matter of taste really.

mart

stimpsonslostson said:

Would this work with my 2006 Les Paul Junior? (I've heard that it has "Modern wiring" rather than "50's style").

...

That's a different issue to what @GuitarMonkey flagged up above. The "independent" wiring is all about how the volume pots are wired up. The "modern" vs "50s style" thing is about how the tone pots are wired up, specifically their position relative to the volumes.

The change may help, because all these things are somewhat inter-related, but they are quite different changes in the wiring.

In fact, in the OP, the wiring is independent but with 50s style tone controls.