Checking on nitro finish guitars

Rowby1

Just read on another thread about checking (cracking) on the finish of nitro finished guitars and a comment was made to the effect that it is to be expected on a guitar that's nearly 20 years old.

Well I've 23 year old Les Paul Standard and a 34 year old Vee CMT, both nitro cellulose finish and not a hint of checking on either of them.

So what's going on there then?

koss59

It's not expected on a guitar 20 years old but isn't surprising that it has it.

Most modern nitro finishes have plasticisers in them meaning they don't check.

It's also down to how certain guitars are kept and in what environment.

Plukky

koss59 said:

It's not expected on a guitar 20 years old but isn't surprising that it has it.

Most modern nitro finishes have plasticisers in them meaning they don't check.

It's also down to how certain guitars are kept and in what environment.

Yep - all about the environment and conditions you've kept it in.

No rapid temperature changes = no checking. 

welshboyo

I've got a 61/62 Gretsch, no checking whatsoever on it, always cased and cared for - as @koss59 says, its all down to how it been kept over the years...

That said, my VOS R7 is also Nitro and I would love for it to age a bit more....no matter how much I gig it (twice a week), in and out of hot/cold environments its not even looking like its going to start to check....

stickyfiddle

Pretty much that. I have a 10-year old SG that's had a hard-ish life and has some checking on the neck. Likewise my 2 year old Cabronita has plenty on the front cos it was snowing when it was sprayed...

But my 15-yr CS336 has none, because it's never had any rapid temperature changes (that's basically what causes it)

Neil

There are a lot of people who torture guitars in fridges etc just to get the "desirable" checking like the old originals but the more modern stuff  uses a different nitro recipe to avoid checking (probably something to do with H&S too) .

Lets face it people would be returning guitars nowadays as faulty if the finish started cracking.

Bogwhoppit

In addition to what's already been said.

Nitrocellulose has evolved over the years. The chemical makeup of the nitrocellulose used in the 50s and early 60s is nothing like the nitro available today - even the special retro formulas.

A family member of mine owned a panel beating / spray shop in the 60s / 70s, these days called a car bodyshop. They exclusively used nitrocellulose right up until the early 70s, then it was acrylic followed by two-pack and then a paint called gipfast. From the 80s onwards paints have evolved tenfold, and from thinners based to water based...etc.

One of the reasons you'll find it hard to source a perfect chemical replica of 50s nitrocellulose is quite simple - it was nasty stuff. The filtering system you need in place just to spray modern nitrocellulose is expensive, let alone the stuff used in my family's old business.

Plasticizers appeared in car nitrocellulose in the 60s, meaning most cars of that period never checked during extreme weather changes either.

crunchman

I've got a 62 reissue Strat I bought new 12 years ago that has a few cracks in the lacquer.  They appeared relatively early and have been pretty stable for a few years now though.

ennspek

I am 43 years old and I suffer from chronic checking....

Rowby1

ennspek said:

I am 43 years old and I suffer from chronic checking....

Clearly your environment hasn't been good for your finish either

RMJ

my CS strat is checked to buggery. LOVE IT!!

Rowby1

Not saying it's a good or bad thing, just puzzled why some guitars go that way and others don't.

Corvus

Although I've been painting for well over 20 yrs I'm still not sure why celly sometimes checks/splits and sometimes doesn't - but thickness makes it happen, as per my 2006 Gibson. My 50s Hofner has very fine checking on the back but you have to look close to see it. The Gibson has long splits like your dodgy razor-blade relic job. Cars painted in it don't check routinely, I've had a few 60s cars in original paint with no checking anywhere, but many a custom job back in the day with lots of layers did crack & craze up.

RMJ

Rowby1 said:

Not saying it's a good or bad thing, just puzzled why some guitars go that way and others don't.

On mine its forced. They do it by introducing artificial extremes of temperature so I believe. Causes cracking in the lacquer.

IvisonGuitars

I was always lead to believe that guitars lacquer checked due to the wood expanding and contracting underneath in extreme temperatures.

By proxy the metal under a cars finish would not expand and contract as much hence no checking.

andy1839

My wife turned off the heating in the room where I keep my guitars while I was away at work for a few weeks. The nitro ones are all checked in some way now. Even the new ones less than two years old. Good job I like to keep them pristine. Flippin' wife.

capo4th

Rowby1 said:

Just read on another thread about checking (cracking) on the finish of nitro finished guitars and a comment was made to the effect that it is to be expected on a guitar that's nearly 20 years old.

Well I've 23 year old Les Paul Standard and a 34 year old Vee CMT, both nitro cellulose finish and not a hint of checking on either of them.

So what's going on there then?

pop em in your Chest freezer for a few days bring em out on a sunny afternoon ......

57Deluxe

Plukky said:

koss59 said:

It's not expected on a guitar 20 years old but isn't surprising that it has it.

Most modern nitro finishes have plasticisers in them meaning they don't check.

It's also down to how certain guitars are kept and in what environment.

Yep - all about the environment and conditions you've kept it in.

No rapid temperature changes = no checking. 

NOT TRUE - my LP sits on its stand in the Dining room away from direct sunlight and a radiator. Room faces North too (less damaging light). It doesn't get gigged, and only occasionally transported to other sessions outside the house, and had started to check withing 4 years from new...

http://i61.tinypic.com/2uj4gmo.jpg

WezV

its not totally unpredictable, but there are no hard and fast rules.  so take all of this with a pinch of salt

a combination of finish thickness, wood thickness, humidty and temperature changes and physical damage all influence it.

 

On thin topped acoustics or thinlines you tend to see checking  going along the grain.   This is usually due to wood expansion and contraction.   You see similar checking on guitars that have suffered damp damage, but in that case you often see it lifting around the cracks too.  acoustics have always been very prone to this damage

Mainly with the grain

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/GenMaint/Heat/73D35Heat/73D35HeatViews/73d35heat07.jpg

 

Long checking that goes mostly across the grain tends to be from natural temperature variations on a thicker finish over time.  this tends to be your gibson and fender style.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3904655063_25e6ae1e52.jpg

 shorter more haphazard version of this tend to be from forced air or freezing to rush the process

http://www.proaudioland.com/images/news/FT2.jpg

 

 

and damage plays a role too

http://images.lilypix.com/albums/olddata/e2ef524fbf3d9fe611d5a8e90fefdc9c/917_p40029.jpg

 

*i have not "checked" which of those finishes are authentic and which are relic.  It doesn't alter the point I am making

 

its not a surprise when it happens, but equally that doesn't mean it will have to happen, or that it only happens if you don't look after your guitars properly

 

 

JD50

I have a 1964 Fender Jaguar, lots of wear no checking.

Neil

...and although 40 years newer than your Jag my 2004 Les Paul has no checking either.