Which Rat?

guitarfishbay

Hypothetically I'm interested in a Rat pedal.

I was messing around with the TSE R47 (Rat emulation) going in to Lecto (Rectifier emulation) last night when sketching out some ideas and I quite enjoyed it.  

It seemed to work quite well as a distortion pedal going in to a cleaner sound, and a boost with a cool texture going in to a driven sound.  If that is how the originals work too then I'd be interested in buying one.

There seem to be a lot of different versions, including some clones, so I'm not sure which way to go.

My requirements for a Rat would be simple:

- Sound like a Rat pedal.  I try to only buy distinctive sounding pedals as opposed to "jack of all trades but not distinctively anything" types, or multiples of the same type.

- Be able to be powered by a Voodoo Labs PP2+

- Be readily available, either regularly on the used market or be easy to find new with a good price/performance value.

- Be built well enough to not worry about breaking it in normal use.  I've read complaints about the newest Proco Rats including some people refusing to modify them.

Thanks.

ICBM

I would look for a used pre-3PDT Rat or RATII. They're not rare or expensive.

The DPDT RATII is easy to identify even without opening it because the LED glows faintly in bypass.

monquixote

I would get a Mooer Black Secret 

Can do a RATII or a Turbo RAT and uses a proper 9v connector.

guitarfishbay

ICBM said:

I would look for a used pre-3PDT Rat or RATII. They're not rare or expensive.

The DPDT RATII is easy to identify even without opening it because the LED glows faintly in bypass.

Thanks, I'll be honest and say I don't understand what you mean by 3PDT or DPDT.

Excluding the one at £175, are any of these the right one? http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Musical-Instruments-/619/i.html?_from=R40&LH_ItemCondition=3000&_nkw=rat+pedal&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

randomhandclaps

If you do decide you want an LM308 based Rat I have one of these which I currently don't use due to building my own -

http://www.bigknobpedals.com/ratpak.htm

It does standard (diode) and Turbo (LED) versions.

johnnyurq

The one in me kitchen.

I did really love the one that was out in the 80's and regret getting shot, but some of the newer ones sound pretty good too.

randomhandclaps

johnnyurq said:

The one in me kitchen.

What ya gonna do?

ICBM

guitarfishbay said:

Thanks, I'll be honest and say I don't understand what you mean by 3PDT or DPDT.

Excluding the one at £175, are any of these the right one? http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Musical-Instruments-/619/i.html?_from=R40&LH_ItemCondition=3000&_nkw=rat+pedal&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

DPDT - Double Pole Double Throw. The old-fashioned type of footswitch - large, black and with six terminals - much more reliable. Some internet "experts" claim it makes the pedal not true bypass, since it also switches the LED - in fact they are all true bypass, and the LED is operated by a clever extra bit of circuitry, which is why it glows faintly when off.

3PDT - 3 Pole Double Throw. The modern type of 'true bypass' footswitch - smaller, blue (sometimes black on some pedals) and with nine terminals - known for not being reliable. They may have changed to these because they're now cheaper than good DPDTs, or simply because internet "experts" didn't believe the old ones were true bypass! This switches the LED directly so it doesn't glow in bypass.

It's impossible to see from the outside which it is - the switch looks the same from the top. As far as I know the change happened some time around 2000, roughly at the same time that the 'desirable' LM308 chip was changed to a more modern one. (Which I'm not convinced makes a big difference.) So if you buy any 80s or 90s one, you'll be fine.

£175 is a silly price even for the 'right' one, though. Half that should buy you the best one you ever need.

ChrisMusic

johnnyurq said:   The one in me kitchen.

randomhandclaps said: What ya gonna do?

Ratatouille - made with one fresh rat ?        (Isn't that how everyone makes it ?)   
:-B

ThePrettyDamned

Try a mooer black secret, work out which mode you prefer then invest in a proper one.

Useful info from ICBM. Iirc, he's a true rat lover. I used to use one for playing Metallica songs... Bloody brilliant distortion, not very amp like, or transparent or any other boutique desirable things, but sounds absolutely class.

monquixote

ThePrettyDamned said:

Try a mooer black secret, work out which mode you prefer then invest in a proper one.

Having A/Bed one I would say unless you feel you have to have a "proper one" or you don't like the small form factor the Mooer is pretty much a perfect clone.

guitarfishbay

monquixote said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Try a mooer black secret, work out which mode you prefer then invest in a proper one.

Having A/Bed one I would say unless you feel you have to have a "proper one" or you don't like the small form factor the Mooer is pretty much a perfect clone.

I think this is the way I'm leaning at the minute, need to do more research later.

ThePrettyDamned

monquixote;69945" said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Try a mooer black secret, work out which mode you prefer then invest in a proper one.









Having A/Bed one I would say unless you feel you have to have a "proper one" or you don't like the small form factor the Mooer is pretty much a perfect clone.

I'd probably feel I should have a proper one... But I'm frigging poor so I don't feel guilty when I buy mooer or Joyo.

Cirrus

I found the Mooer to be a bit thicker sounding - it's got more low mids, and less treble, which could either be a good or bad thing depending on millions of other factors in your rig/ genre/ mind.

For me it made it border on tubby sounding which wasn't as exciting to me as a stock Rat II.

Personally I'd pick a pre-china Rat II. The way to tell is simple as far as I remember: they say "made in USA" on a label on the bottom and have flat tops whereas the newer chinese ones have sloping tops. They're built to last.

Turbo Rats are also cool. Less compressed, louder, more midrange. Not quite the same explosive, ratty gnarlyness though,

ICBM

Agreed. I actually like the RAT II and the You Dirty Rat best - I agree about the gnarlyness of the RAT II, and I like the almost Neil Young exploding-amp sound the YDR can do. I find both the 'Vintage Rat' and the Turbo Rat too middy and a bit too smooth.

The straight-box RAT II is still the best one though, for me.

I am a fan, but to be honest I don't use mine that much any more - not because I don't like it but because I just don't play the sort of music it suits best now. It's not a polite pedal .

I would use it for bass but actually the 'Squeak' model on my Zoom B3 isn't too far off.[/heresy]

JD50

I have never heard a bad Rat, they all sound great to my ears, USA, Chinese, mojo chip, Turbo or whatever , they all sound ace. Can be had for around £40 2nd all day long.

skay

The recent ProCo '85 Whiteface Rat reissue is simply awesome, It just kills with my Vox amp, got it for a decent price from Hot Rox a year or so ago when they reduced the price to £150 or something close. I also have a Turbo Rat that does a better low gain sound at home, yeah bit odd this one, but sounds harsh compared to the WF Rat in a loud band situation at all levels of distortion The WF Rat simply melts into my Vox and becomes one with the sound, especially with my Rickenbacker, it sounds like this pedal was made for this combination.

I know there's cheaper Rats out there that can get very close, but the WF Rat is an exact reissue from ProCo using the same components used in the original pedal that others try to copy, plus that metal casing is bullet proof, I mean they should make those aeroplane black box recorders out of this pedal :-)

midiglitch

Plus 1 for the Mooer. I ab'd against my rat 2 and preferred the Mooer. I use it in turbo mode.

Downside are the ridiculous little knobs which you have no idea where they are set, so order some tip ex To mark them with at the same time

Bidley

I've got a boggo Rat II. It sounds like a Rat, and it works - can't go wrong!

Cirrus

ICBM;70073" said:

I would use it for bass but actually the 'Squeak' model on my Zoom B3 isn't too far off.[/heresy]

I don't think it's a hard pedal to model - the line 6 DM4 model was very close too, and the 3 band eq actually made it more useful in one practical sense as far as molding the tone to fit the amp's response.

Everyone who has a whiteface rat thinks it's awesome, I've never heard one. I'd love to know what the actual circuit difference is.