MaxRossell's Nitro Tele Refinish. Pics!

Tex Mexico

I have access to that kit, but to be honest I have way more experience with cans than a spray gun. I'm not all that worried, I think I can get it as good as I want it. My questions were about how the products behave because I haven't done nitro before, but in my experience careful planning, good preparation and taking your time are the most important aspects of refinishing, and if those are taken care of properly then the results tend to be good regardless.

JohnB

I would be slightly concerned about Nitromors with polyester, methylene chloride is very aggressive (if the nanny state hasn't led to its removal from the formulation) - agree acetone is much safer but test it.  Go for it  

SimonRF

Tex Mexico said:

Oh right, last question:

I know that with metallics the last pass of colour needs to be dusted to get the particles to sit up and reflect, so should I flat sand before the clearcoat, or will that ruin the effect?

Yes, get the metallic sitting at all different angles for best effect, and don't touch it before sealing it all in with your clear coat. 

Tex Mexico said:

but in my experience careful planning, good preparation and taking your time are the most important aspects of refinishing, and if those are taken care of properly then the results tend to be good regardless.

This is excellent advice, whichever finish you're using. Clear coats tend not to be very high build, and you won't have any opportunity to flat the metallic, so the careful prep stage is crucial. Our cellulose paint sprays easily - it's clear nitro that's most temperamental, so wait for this recent rain/humidity to pass before spraying.

SteveRobinson

JohnB said:

I would be slightly concerned about Nitromors with polyester, methylene chloride is very aggressive (if the nanny state hasn't led to its removal from the formulation) - agree acetone is much safer but test it.  Go for it  

The EU banned dichloromethane/methylene chloride from paint strippers a few years back. The active constituent these days is mostly methanol.

jd0272

SteveRobinson said:

jd0272 said:

Don't sell mutton cloth in Sainsbury's  

Try Halfords!

Halfords don't sell gin, cola, and JPS Black. I checked.

Sassafras

If you're going to be using loads of acetone remember not to inhale.

Well ventilated space otherwise you'll end up flat on the floor.

Tex Mexico

Sassafras said:

If you're going to be using loads of acetone remember not to inhale.

Well ventilated space otherwise you'll end up flat on the floor.

Surely that's half the fun?

Tex Mexico

So I used a can of Wilko brand paint and varnish stripper and it ruined the guitar...

Kidding. It took the guitar back to the wood in about an hour's work. Turns out the sealer on this here AVRI is (was) cellulose, so that came off too. Anyway, I'll try to snap a pic of the clean body tomorrow, because none of you guys have ever seen a stripped tele body before, right? Seriously though, I've left some LPB in the pickup and control cavities and I'll tape them off before I spray it so there's evidence of the refin, and also to protect the Fender barcode stickers (don't ask me why, but I reckon it's worth keeping them in there because why not).

Anyway, I sanded it up and it's nice and smooth and ready for sealer, shoreline gold and clear. Should be done inside a few weeks.

Then I'll get out my orbital sander and relic the shit out of it. Not really.

Pics when I get the chance.

jd0272

If the body's ash, don't forget to grain fill. If it's alder forget to grain fill.

Tex Mexico

It's alder. Nice grain too for alder, almost a shame to cover it.

Tex Mexico

Quick questions about cellulose spraying techniques:

Is there a merit to building only using thin coats? Is there a necessity to lay a wet coat after the base coats so the surface levels off, or will the first coats reflow well enough with a thinner coat? I want to try to get as flat a surface as possible to minimise sanding so I can get the finish super thin, so I was thinking of really taking my time with it and doing a series of single-pass coats, giving it plenty of time to flash off in between. Is this likely to cause me any problems? Does the colour coat being a metallic make any difference?

I've tried this in the past with poly but it hasn't worked as well as poly doesn't really reflow - I'm guessing that's why I've found it so hard to get a thin poly finish, it doesn't even out so you have to keep sanding and building, or shoot a wetter coat and risk pitting or orange peel. The "Flash coat" nitro finish I just stripped off my AVRI body was super thin, I want to try for that if I can.

Tex Mexico

Anyone?

SimonRF

Tex Mexico said:

Quick questions about cellulose spraying techniques:

Is there a merit to building only using thin coats? Is there a necessity to lay a wet coat after the base coats so the surface levels off, or will the first coats reflow well enough with a thinner coat? I want to try to get as flat a surface as possible to minimise sanding so I can get the finish super thin, so I was thinking of really taking my time with it and doing a series of single-pass coats, giving it plenty of time to flash off in between. Is this likely to cause me any problems? Does the colour coat being a metallic make any difference?

I've tried this in the past with poly but it hasn't worked as well as poly doesn't really reflow - I'm guessing that's why I've found it so hard to get a thin poly finish, it doesn't even out so you have to keep sanding and building, or shoot a wetter coat and risk pitting or orange peel. The "Flash coat" nitro finish I just stripped off my AVRI body was super thin, I want to try for that if I can.

@Tex Mexico nitro isn't very high build, so even a 'full' wet coat doesn't actually build up much film thickness. The risk with many many very thin coats is that by the time the paint hits the surface most of the solvent has gone, so it cannot reflow and burn in as it normally would. This in turn can give problems down the line with delamination and cracking.

The most important part is the primer phase, so just spend the time getting this smooth and flat (don't go finer than 600 grit). Once you've sprayed the metallic and the final mist to enhance the effect, start lightly with the clear then build up to fuller coats. This will reflow the existing coats, all melt together and should naturally level, but it can only do this if a proper coat is applied - don't go too thin on each coat!

When polishing you'll be taking a lot of the clear back off (600 up to 2000 grit, then then liquid compounds), so as much as you're trying for a thin finish don't skimp on the clear, as sanding through and hitting the colour coat is a pain to fix on metallics.

Tex Mexico

So anyway, being as I am a man of action I'm well on my way with this one.

As I've said up above I stripped the body using Wilko brand nitromors-type stuff, with good success:



Basically I brushed it on nice and thick, left it for about fifteen minutes then used a scraper I made from offcuts of hardboard to scrape it off the body. It came off in wet sheets and it required two or three passes of this to get the bulk off. Then I reapplied the stripper and wiped the rest off with a rag, then cleaned the whole lot down with white spirit. This picture is after the strip but before I sanded the body.

I took a couple of hours to sand the body, although it was theoretically still in factory-sanded condition I wanted to be really thorough so I gave it a few passes up to 240 and then a last blast at 320 under a microscope. There are a couple of dings in the body, but they're pretty tiny and I've decided to leave them in rather than get into fixing them - frankly, the way I play they'll be joined by plenty of other dings very soon.

Once the body was smooth as I could get it I shot it with a whole can of sealer/primer in white:



I chose white because the light in my workshop isn't very good and it'll help me spot any problems more easily before I get onto the colour coat. This is the cellulose sealer/primer product from @RothkoAndFrost (I chose their stuff this time, next time I'll use Steve Robinson's products, both have been very helpful to me with my stupid questions), and it went on really easily, it's the easiest time I've had spraying with cans by far and I hope the rest of the process is as easy as this step.

Now I'm going to leave it over the weekend, the workshop is actually at my day job so it's easiest for me to spray on a Friday and then let it gas for a week, I reckon I'll be flatting this off sometime around Thursday and then all being well hitting it with colour Friday.

So here's a question: What's the recommendation for a paint schedule? Am I shooting colour then clear right away? I imagine I'll be doing a first light coat of colour, then two wetter coats, then a final dust for the metallic effect, all at twenty-to-thirty-minute intervals, but what then? Would it be better to just keep going in half-hours slots with the clear, or should I leave a longer gap?

SimonRF

@Tex Mexico great work with prepping the body, and glad to hear you're finding the spray cans easy to use.

We'd leave the metallic overnight, and get all the clear sprayed the following day. Recoat time for our clear nitro is 2-4 hours, no more than 3 full coats in a day.

Then, 2 weeks to harden before polishing.

Tex Mexico

Cool, thanks. Will the final dust of metallic be okay to leave overnight as well? I might do the colour next Friday then go in on Saturday to shoot the clear.

Also, what's the recoat time for the gold, is that also 2-4 hours? I'd been working from a scale of twenty to forty minutes.

SimonRF

Yep, final metallic dust okay overnight.

30 minutes recoat time is fine for our cellulose paints (solid and metallic colours). For the nitro lacquer, 2-4 hours.

Tex Mexico

Nice one, that's great info. Roll on next week!

SimonRF

Can't wait to see it

Tex Mexico

So I had some time today, so I flatted the body up to 600 and laid on some colour. I apologise for the shitty photos, the light is a joke in my workshop, the guitar looks a LOT better in real life. When I get it done I'll be able to take some proper pictures of it but until then I'm afraid it's cheap strip lighting. Still, here's the colour coat in all its glory:



Like I said, these don't even come close to what it looks like in person, but then it's going to look a lot better with clear over it. I probably won't get to that before the end of the week.