So... first Computer Lab session went... hmmm.

Myranda

So, we had a set of tasks 

- make a program that asks for an input name and writes "<insert name> is a silly name"

- make a program that asks for two input names and displays them in reverse order

- make a program that asks for three names and reverses them and displays all three

In Java - with pre-written dialogue box code...

So it's 5-10 lines of code.

Someone asked for help... so I gave them some help, then three or four others asked for help... spent so much time helping that I barely got time to finish the essential tasks (there was an advanced task too) and I still have to upload those to the school network for marking and the class is over... 

This is the first class - all of the information needed was in the class material that was available all last week, and the two hour lecture in the morning... have I doomed myself to doing the same task as the Mentors (the Computer and Information Systems department has a dedicated team of "CIS - Mentors" who can put mentoring on their CV) without getting the credit for it?

Someone has my phone number now to ask for help!

This could be an intense year.

thomasross20

Look after yourself first.

PolarityMan

I assume you also sanitised all your input too? Your studying security right?

JezWynd

thomasross20 said:

Look after yourself first.

+1. If all the materials were available beforehand, then you shouldn't feel that you have to assist these people. Assertiveness 101.

Danny1969

I remember college doing HND electronics. The lecturer expertly explains the maths behind the values for the circuit. Nobody says anything just nod along. Then when he's done and we have to substitute our own values the guy next to me says " So how do we do this then ?"    .... time after time ..... in the end I just pretended I didn't know, it was easier !

Pretend you don't know enough to help anyone, that's my advice 

BigMonka

Haha, I remember doing those codes in my first week of computer labs (did an electronics degree), and I think I was the one asking everyone else for help as I'd never done anything like it before. So on behalf of those less able, we salute you for helping!!

randomhandclaps

You've done really well.  In the film Scum it seems to take Ray Winstone's character a fair bit of time to become 'the daddy' (or mummy) but it sounds like you cracked it on the first day.

Drew_TNBD

Don't help the competition.

thomasross20

I did Chemistry at high school so first year electronics was a nightmare for me. One tutor said I should do a different course. I worked my @rse off and got class prize. On one hand, I hear what you're saying. BigMonka - some people took the piss asking for help on my course, though.

gubble

I always thought the very first thing you did in Java was get it to output "Hello World"

Also it's the rule that every Java book must start with the paragraph "Java was originally called oak because of the large oak tree in the garden of the university. Upon discovering that there was already a programming language called oak they renamed it Java after their favourite coffee bean"

That was 15 years ago mind- things may have progressed - I'm guessing students no longer use books

guitarfishbay

If you decide to put yourself in this role you'll spend your free time being a parent to these people, who have access to the same information you do at the end of the day.

Loads of people are lazy and want to be spoon fed.

Remember The Matrix.

mudslide73

Danny1969 said:

Pretend you don't know enough to help anyone, that's my advice 

Wis'd. If only I'd followed this I wouldn't be in a support role now.

digitalscream

Yowsers. I'd suggest that somebody who needs to ask for help with such a basic task should not be studying a degree with significant programming content.

holnrew

Fuck 'em.

monquixote

Do your own work first!

Emp_Fab

Do your own work first and then fuck 'em.

John_P

charge them.

As others have said, get into a routine of saying you'll help after you've done it.

but then if people want help out of class then ask for some kind of fee.  

Myranda

Emp_Fab said:

Do your own work first and then fuck 'em.

monquixote said:

Do your own work first!

thomasross20 said:

Look after yourself first.

PolarityMan said:

I assume you also sanitised all your input too? Your studying security right?

Thankfully I have a week to upload it all - which gives me a chance to do the bit of work in the advanced bit that they didn't get to...

digitalscream said:

Yowsers. I'd suggest that somebody who needs to ask for help with such a basic task should not be studying a degree with significant programming content.

The programming module is specifically a mandatory pass module - no one not passing the programming module is allowed to progress to year two. I think that there are people who will fail - probably a long way before the end of this module - if they're smart they'll look at changing subjects pretty fast

I should also say that two of them were so far behind that they didn't upload the work - and I didn't have time to show them where to look for that*

John_P said:

charge them.

As others have said, get into a routine of saying you'll help after you've done it.

but then if people want help out of class then ask for some kind of fee.  

You know that did cross my mind...

We have access to the work ahead of the lesson - if I can get into the habit of doing the work in advance then charging my fellow students for help is not beyond the realm of plausible ...

* The hard part is not just telling people the correct answers, but how to actually understand what it is they're typing, and why. Aside from plagiarism reasons, anyone can cut and paste some stuff, but if they actually understand it they might stop asking me silly questions. Trouble is that explaining takes a lot longer to explain where the variable is defined, where you're calling for a dialogue box and why, and what to do with that... 

digitalscream

Myranda said:

digitalscream said:

Yowsers. I'd suggest that somebody who needs to ask for help with such a basic task should not be studying a degree with significant programming content.

The programming module is specifically a mandatory pass module - no one not passing the programming module is allowed to progress to year two. I think that there are people who will fail - probably a long way before the end of this module - if they're smart they'll look at changing subjects pretty fast

I should also say that two of them were so far behind that they didn't upload the work - and I didn't have time to show them where to look for that*

I guess it's not the "they shouldn't pass" bit that's getting up my nose - it's the fact that they undertook a degree course with mandatory programming content and haven't considered that they might need to know this shit before they started...or, at the very least, should've looked into it a bit first.

I mean...pre-teens can do that kind of thing. I know, I taught a few after-school classes on programming using Java to a bunch of 12 year olds, and they all got it within one lesson. Degree students have absolutely no excuse.

Perhaps I'm too middle-aged to be thinking about this

monquixote

digitalscream said:

Myranda said:

digitalscream said:

Yowsers. I'd suggest that somebody who needs to ask for help with such a basic task should not be studying a degree with significant programming content.

The programming module is specifically a mandatory pass module - no one not passing the programming module is allowed to progress to year two. I think that there are people who will fail - probably a long way before the end of this module - if they're smart they'll look at changing subjects pretty fast

I should also say that two of them were so far behind that they didn't upload the work - and I didn't have time to show them where to look for that*

I guess it's not the "they shouldn't pass" bit that's getting up my nose - it's the fact that they undertook a degree course with mandatory programming content and haven't considered that they might need to know this shit before they started...or, at the very least, should've looked into it a bit first.

I mean...pre-teens can do that kind of thing. I know, I taught a few after-school classes on programming using Java to a bunch of 12 year olds, and they all got it within one lesson. Degree students have absolutely no excuse.

Perhaps I'm too middle-aged to be thinking about this

I once interviewed someone with a first class honours degree in computer science who failed on the question: 

"Write a function to sum an array of integers"

Myranda

digitalscream said:

Myranda said:

digitalscream said:

Yowsers. I'd suggest that somebody who needs to ask for help with such a basic task should not be studying a degree with significant programming content.

The programming module is specifically a mandatory pass module - no one not passing the programming module is allowed to progress to year two. I think that there are people who will fail - probably a long way before the end of this module - if they're smart they'll look at changing subjects pretty fast

I should also say that two of them were so far behind that they didn't upload the work - and I didn't have time to show them where to look for that*

I guess it's not the "they shouldn't pass" bit that's getting up my nose - it's the fact that they undertook a degree course with mandatory programming content and haven't considered that they might need to know this shit before they started...or, at the very least, should've looked into it a bit first.

I mean...pre-teens can do that kind of thing. I know, I taught a few after-school classes on programming using Java to a bunch of 12 year olds, and they all got it within one lesson. Degree students have absolutely no excuse.

Perhaps I'm too middle-aged to be thinking about this

The worst part is that they didn't need to know ANYTHING for this particular lab... we had a two hour lecture this morning which explained every single component part of the programs we needed... I mean... the most complicated the "core" (required for the lesson( exercises got was to define three variables and display the content of them in a specific order... 

Java isn't complicated - at least at this level - and we'd been told how to do it...

So it's worse than not knowing about Java, not knowing about programming or not trying to just look at the code and work it out... it's not paying attention or taking notes in a lecture... 

Not taking the opportunity to learn from a lecture... sitting in the back and chatting (or falling asleep in one case)... these are not facets of naiveté these are signs you're wasting your time... and will fail.