So... first Computer Lab session went... hmmm.

Myranda

monquixote said:

digitalscream said:

Myranda said:

digitalscream said:

Yowsers. I'd suggest that somebody who needs to ask for help with such a basic task should not be studying a degree with significant programming content.

The programming module is specifically a mandatory pass module - no one not passing the programming module is allowed to progress to year two. I think that there are people who will fail - probably a long way before the end of this module - if they're smart they'll look at changing subjects pretty fast

I should also say that two of them were so far behind that they didn't upload the work - and I didn't have time to show them where to look for that*

I guess it's not the "they shouldn't pass" bit that's getting up my nose - it's the fact that they undertook a degree course with mandatory programming content and haven't considered that they might need to know this shit before they started...or, at the very least, should've looked into it a bit first.

I mean...pre-teens can do that kind of thing. I know, I taught a few after-school classes on programming using Java to a bunch of 12 year olds, and they all got it within one lesson. Degree students have absolutely no excuse.

Perhaps I'm too middle-aged to be thinking about this

I once interviewed someone with a first class honours degree in computer science who failed on the question: 

"Write a function to sum an array of integers"

Yeah, it happens - my mother did a mechanical engineering degree and says she was half way through the second year before learning what a torque wrench was for, or how to use one... 

Sambostar

I had this with AutoCAD years and years ago.  There was a really snobby and gorgeous girl who couldn't find the line (Because she'd zoomed in too much in the wrong place).  Honestly no idea, so I helped her when she asked, then when I showed her she reacted like she was doing me a favour and showing me how to use it and then completely ignored me.  What a bitch.

randomhandclaps

Sambostar said:

I had this with AutoCAD years and years ago.  There was a really snobby and gorgeous girl who couldn't find the line (Because she'd zoomed in too much in the wrong place).  Honestly no idea, so I helped her when she asked, then when I showed her she reacted like she was doing me a favour and showing me how to use it and then completely ignored me.  What a bitch.

Gingerism in action there.  I hope at some later point you shit in her handbag.

hobbio

Only help other people once you've completed your own tasks.

frankus

Myranda said:

So, we had a set of tasks 

- make a program that asks for an input name and writes "<insert name> is a silly name"

- make a program that asks for two input names and displays them in reverse order

- make a program that asks for three names and reverses them and displays all three

In Java - with pre-written dialogue box code...

So it's 5-10 lines of code.

See there's ya problem: "in Java" ...

perl -E 'chomp($_=<>);say "$_ is a silly name";'

perl -E '$,=" ";chomp($a=<>);chomp($b=<>);say reverse sort($a,$b)';

perl -E '$,=" ";chomp($a=<>);chomp($b=<>);chomp($c=<>);say map{join "",reverse split//,$_}($a,$b,$c)'

it'd be easier if there were no caps on the input numbers.

perl -pe 'chomp;$_.=" is a silly name";'

perl -E '$,=" "; say reverse sort(map{chomp;$_}<>)';

perl -nE 'say reverse split//,$_'

Also, I find Java devs are so needy, I'm more of a Ruby, Python, Perl, C, PHP, Bash, Zsh guy - I can code Java but frankly I find them a bit exasperating to work with. I've seen applications decisions be made based on what works with their IDE!?!

Other developers are more inclined to say "I've not got access to LDAP/Samba/Oracle/Rest/SOAP but I'll have a crack at it" whereas Java devs go and find a sys admin or more clued developer. Then they take the piss out of the sys admin or more clueful dev for being an operations type person.

octatonic

I found myself in the same situation.

Seriously- look after yourself.

Don't get too emotionally invested in helping other people.

Yes, it is nice to do and people will like you for it, right up until the time they hand in work you've basically done for them.

Spend the extra energy working on your own stuff.

hobbio

Also, and this sounds harsh, but you'll all graduate at the same time and you'll all be looking for the same jobs at the same time. Imagine how shit it would be if you were beaten to a role by someone you'd basically carried through the degree. Let them sink or swim by themselves.

randomhandclaps

I found myself in a very similar situation with people just going on and on non-stop begging for my help.  It really began to grate on me.  TBH as the plane was on fire I just left them to sort it out themselves.  Unfortunately the fire fighters managed to save a few which made for a very awkward ambulance ride for me.  Some people just can't cope with rejection at all.

frankus

randomhandclaps said:

I found myself in a very similar situation with people just going on and on non-stop begging for my help.  It really began to grate on me.  TBH as the plane was on fire I just left them to sort it out themselves.  Unfortunately the fire fighters managed to save a few which made for a very awkward ambulance ride for me.  Some people just can't cope with rejection at all.

Mags is a massive proponent of game theory, and to be honest fire escapes on planes should be designed with game theory in mind.... that is everyone for themselves. Not because it's good or right, it's just the simplest thing to design for and more honest. So assuming your joke is meant as a bit of a rebuke, I'd like to counter. 

For the students, you can bet your last dollar they will not remember being helped, unless they need helping again. That's not a reason not to help, quite the opposite. But it does raise the question of what help is. I like using the "give a man a fish" philosophy and if they just want to be rescued it becomes apparent.

Myranda is a mature student, that means lessons in self-sufficiency have been learned, I also imagine she's familiar with being a carer too.

crunchman

Myranda said:

* The hard part is not just telling people the correct answers, but how to actually understand what it is they're typing, and why. Aside from plagiarism reasons, anyone can cut and paste some stuff, but if they actually understand it they might stop asking me silly questions. Trouble is that explaining takes a lot longer to explain where the variable is defined, where you're calling for a dialogue box and why, and what to do with that... 

I always try to make sure I understand code before I just cut and paste it.  I spent half an hour this morning with some of my manager's code rather than just cut and paste it.

It's quite novel having a manager who's good at technical things.  I just wish he was a bit better at the people things sometimes.

ESBlonde

If you help everyone the tutors will not know they are failing to get the lesson across or the threshold for entry is too low! We could all do with some assistance now and again but at this early stage you need to take a back seat. Who's going to help you when you get stumped?

dafuzz

This is why I never went to any labs or tutorials.

Make them pay in beer ffs! Quickly, before they flunk out and are gone for good.

Myranda

Hmm.

Had a look at next week's labs for the the other course

SSH into a unix machine... then remote into a Linux desktop... do some file moving/deleting and changing permissions... 

Then get into 4s and write a fully featured academic paper on what we learned, what was easy and what we will do do learn the bits [we] don't understand (complete with Abstract, contents page (how long is it meant to be?!) etc) and submit that within 6 days... )

I am NOT, repeat NOT getting into a group with the slower buggers for that! Nope!

chrispy108

The secret to group work:

Meet right at the start to make a plan.

Plan it so you carve the work up and join it at the end, rather than constant collaboration.

Agree deadlines and meetings at this point.

Write the plan and e-mail it to everyone.

Having this paper trail of me having done my bits saved me a grade when a group I was in tried to shaft me.

Axe_meister

chrispy108;800927" said:

The secret to group work:Meet right at the start to make a plan.Plan it so you carve the work up and join it at the end, rather than constant collaboration.Agree deadlines and meetings at this point.Write the plan and e-mail it to everyone.



Having this paper trail of me having done my bits saved me a grade when a group I was in tried to shaft me.

All very good until you hit interdependencies. Look at agile methodologies!

holnrew

I have a get out of jail free card for group work and presentations, thankfully.