Pickups for the "jazz strat" - possible?

OilCityPickups

Megii said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Megii said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Or a different amp ... my own favorite 'jazz' amp

Lol - a man after my own heart - I already have the exact same amp, and it's my favourite jazz amp too!

I can't really play Jazz ... but with my mates Polytone and my deep bodied Ibanez semi ... with one of my humbucker sized P90s in the neck (my DeArmond 'Sun-T-Ron' clone in the bridge) ... I can fake it like a bastard

Can anyone really play Jazz?    Well, Joe Pass could I guess, and I've at least had fun myself trying to for the last 30-something years. I can imagine that gear setup you describe would sound pretty epic. Just coming back to the pickups for the strat, and I appreciate your advice and restraint in not plugging your own fine products - but could I ask what you might think about something like this Klein "Dallas Blues" set spec-wise? http://www.kleinpickups.com/p-82-dallas-blues-stratocaster-pickups.aspx - alnico 2, and the neck wound to a meaty 7.25K, going up to 8.5K for the bridge. Listening to the sound clip for the neck pickup, although blues, that is getting into the kind of tone ballpark I'd like I'd say.

That's the ballpark power and magnets I'd be going for. Pretty close to the sound I used to have with one of my gigging Strats: 7.2, 7.2, 8.4 all with baseplates and all wound 42awg (needs a fraction taller bobbin on the bridge to really make that amount of 42awg comfortable with a wide scatter - still fits under a standard looking cover) I have to say I moved on to something different as all my guitars are really testbeds

JayGee

As an alternative approach, rather than a potentially quite expensive radical pickup swap how about a "Varitone" style circuit to switch in an additional cap (or r/c, or even r/c plus inductor! circuit? 

Not suggesting the whole 6 position rotary plus chicken head knob deal, just a single set of values on a mini-toggle or push-pull something like the PRS "sweet switch" (I gather that actually uses a sort of passive analog delay implemented as a set of L/C networks but I gather there are much simpler ways of doing it....).

Megii

JayGee said:

As an alternative approach, rather than a potentially quite expensive radical pickup swap how about a "Varitone" style circuit to switch in an additional cap (or r/c, or even r/c plus inductor! circuit? 

Not suggesting the whole 6 position rotary plus chicken head knob deal, just a single set of values on a mini-toggle or push-pull something like the PRS "sweet switch" (I gather that actually uses a sort of passive analog delay implemented as a set of L/C networks but I gather there are much simpler ways of doing it....).

That's not a bad suggestion at all JayGee, and something I hadn't considered at all. At the moment, I have quite a bit to ponder, but I'm happy to add that to the list. I like to have a master volume and tone on the strat, so that does leave a spare pot space to fill - maybe something varitone-ish could fill that space. Could even combine that with a custom neck pickup as well, and that might really do something pretty good.

ToneControl

what about those SC-sized PAFs? would SD Little 59s with the tone rolled down work? 

Those PRS narrowfields work too, but too big of course

 

Also: an EMG mid-boost can lift a SC into a smoother mid-dominated sound (or use active bass and treble). You can use these with passives, or as I would recommend, with EMG SAs.  I know not everyone has love for actives, I didn't until my luthier lent me his own guitar with them fitted. Now I have them in 6 guitars, which should speak for itself. To be very flexible, a pair of EMG 89s would be excellent, since they do HB and SC tones - but you quite rightly don't plan to do HB-sized pups on this guitar

As a general point, I can remember decades of switching pickups and not being happy. Fit active EQ, and you can get a working sound with most amps very quickly, there's no way you can achieve as much with a passive control.

Having said all this, have you tried a graphic EQ pedal?

btw if you fit piezos, and mix a little into the magnetic pup sound, you get an acoustic feel which sounds a little more airy like a semi, which can help if you want a hollow-body jazz sound

Kinman do hot-wound pickups, but I tried them and found they were too dark for normal strat sounds, as I say - that guitar (my #1 for nearly 30 years) now has an EMG DG20 set, SAs and active EXG + SPC. I love it, had those in for 3-4 years, I'd swap the active controls for simple bass and treble though I think, which is what I have on my Steinberger Transcale

Megii

ToneControl said:

what about those SC-sized PAFs? would SD Little 59s with the tone rolled down work? 

Those PRS narrowfields work too, but too big of course

 

Also: an EMG mid-boost can lift a SC into a smoother mid-dominated sound (or use active bass and treble). You can use these with passives, or as I would recommend, with EMG SAs.  I know not everyone has love for actives, I didn't until my luthier lent me his own guitar with them fitted. Now I have them in 6 guitars, which should speak for itself. To be very flexible, a pair of EMG 89s would be excellent, since they do HB and SC tones - but you quite rightly don't plan to do HB-sized pups on this guitar

As a general point, I can remember decades of switching pickups and not being happy. Fit active EQ, and you can get a working sound with most amps very quickly, there's no way you can achieve as much with a passive control.

Having said all this, have you tried a graphic EQ pedal?

btw if you fit piezos, and mix a little into the magnetic pup sound, you get an acoustic feel which sounds a little more airy like a semi, which can help if you want a hollow-body jazz sound

Kinman do hot-wound pickups, but I tried them and found they were too dark for normal strat sounds, as I say - that guitar (my #1 for nearly 30 years) now has an EMG DG20 set, SAs and active EXG + SPC. I love it, had those in for 3-4 years, I'd swap the active controls for simple bass and treble though I think, which is what I have on my Steinberger Transcale

Some great thoughts and ideas there, cheers TC! It seems from this thread that there is quite a bit a strat owner can do to get more into jazz territory - I thought at first I might be asking the near-impossible. I do have to keep costs down to a certain extent, which I think will rule out EMGs for me. The lil 59 with the tone down - I do actually have a guitar with that pickup in the neck, and it's great, but just not quite what I'm after this time. The graphic is a great point, and I can use the one on my Zoom G3 - so will give that a go, and it could well form a part of the "final solution". I also take your point about the darkness of hot pickups - but I'm just thinking about maybe contacting Weasel about some sort of custom alnico II neck pickup. Would be wound to say 7.3K or so, fitted with baseplate. But also maybe he could put a tap in at about 5.5K (or something like that) so I could switch to a more traditional, brighter strat tone.... Hmmm!  ponder, ponder... interesting no?  :-? 

ToneControl

a hot-wound strat SC, with a tap, yes.

btw, that's sort of what the classic and hot stack Seymour Duncan are (and other similar ones): a hottish SC, with another coil underneath that cancels noise and a little bit of the signal. I wonder if you added the hum-cancelling coil instead of subtracting it, would that do what you want, just thinking since there are plenty of used ones out there

ICBM

A tapped pickup, or pickups, using those mini-switches to operate them would give you the best of both worlds. You could tap just the neck and middle positions and leave the bridge as a full hot pickup.

Megii

Lol, the middle pickup in my guitar which has the neck lil 59, is an old (mid 80's) SD "classic strat stack" pickup. No longer made, but it is a great pickup imo. I have it wired so I can switch out the lower coil for a truer strat tone (but losing the hum-cancelling). In general, less high end crispness than a "proper" strat pickup, but a nice sound in it's own right. Afraid again probably not what I'm after here, and I'm not too concerned about the hum issue with this guitar anyhow (the guitar is already well-shielded btw). Do appreciate your interest and ideas though, cheers!

Megii

ICBM said:

A tapped pickup, or pickups, using those mini-switches to operate them would give you the best of both worlds. You could tap just the neck and middle positions and leave the bridge as a full hot pickup.

Your thoughts run along similar lines to mine sir! - although I'm not too flush lately, so may just deal with the neck pickup on it's own at first, and can always change the middle and bridge p'ups later on. I have been thinking I could lose one of the mini toggles -it gets in the way of volume swells a bit, and also my tastes have changed towards simpler guitar circuits since I built that guitar. But I could still use one toggle to tap both the neck and bridge at the same time. Or maybe keep the middle alnico 3 pickup as it is, for a bright strat sound to mix in with the neck or bridge. And then perhaps a beefy bridge pickup that could be tapped along with the neck p'up. The attraction of all these kind of ideas is definitely that I don't lose the old-school vintage strat tones.

failed_astronaut

Firstly, that is a stunning guitar!

Secondly, and this might be a wild suggestion (and apologies if it has been ruled out previously in this thread), but how about a humbucker in the neck? I've personally always wanted to do that to a strat.

Megii

failed_astronaut said:

Firstly, that is a stunning guitar!

Secondly, and this might be a wild suggestion (and apologies if it has been ruled out previously in this thread), but how about a humbucker in the neck? I've personally always wanted to do that to a strat.

It's a fine suggestion, but I'm afraid it has been ruled out for this guitar - I'm really wanting to get into something that still single-coil - still stratty in a way, but kind of richer, deeper and fatter sounding, if that makes sense. And no extra routing, and keep the vintage strat kind of look also. Thanks for the kind words on the guitar also - it did come out well, which is one reason I wish I could make more use of it.

ToneControl

http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/stratocaster/#BigNine

supposed to be p90 in a SC

http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/stratocaster/bignine-o/index.php

 

frankus

Wayne Krantz and Leni Stern seem to do alreet on a Strat...

I generally put the pick down and roll the tone back a bit... then play using my thumb

Megii

frankus said:

Wayne Krantz and Leni Stern seem to do alreet on a Strat...

I generally put the pick down and roll the tone back a bit... then play using my thumb

True enough they do do alreet! I often play with my thumb too as it happens, and fingerstyle also much of the time. I can only say that for jazz, my strat as it currently stands is not really working for me - I'm just talking from my own experience, which is really how it has to be. Can happily accept that things may be different for other guitarists. 

Megii

ToneControl said:

http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/stratocaster/#BigNine

supposed to be p90 in a SC

http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/stratocaster/bignine-o/index.php

 

The description sounds impressive. I've no doubt it would help in my "jazz strat" quest. Price (sadly) does count against it, and also my tapped high-wind pickup idea I'm still liking, as that does give me the ability to switch back into more standard strat tones. But undoubtedly impressive, and thanks for making me aware of that one TC!

Megii

ToneControl said:

http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/stratocaster/#BigNine

supposed to be p90 in a SC

http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/stratocaster/bignine-o/index.php

 

Sounds like an undeniably great pickup, and thanks for making me aware of that. There's some really great stuff out there these days I must say. Unfortunately the price counts against it (in my case!) and I do still rather like my idea of an over-wound alnico 2 that I can tap to get back into more standard strat territory if desired. Have appreciated all your posts though TC, cheers - has helped me to think about what I need/want for this guitar.

Megii

ToneControl said:

http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/stratocaster/#BigNine

supposed to be p90 in a SC

http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/stratocaster/bignine-o/index.php

 

The description sounds impressive. I've no doubt it would help in my "jazz strat" quest. Price (sadly) does count against it, and also my tapped high-wind pickup idea I'm still liking, as that does give me the ability to switch back into more standard strat tones. But undoubtedly impressive, and thanks for making me aware of that one TC!

Megii

ToneControl said:

http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/stratocaster/#BigNine

supposed to be p90 in a SC

http://www.kinman.com/guitar-pickups/stratocaster/bignine-o/index.php

 

Sounds like an undeniably great pickup, and thanks for making me aware of that. There's some really great stuff out there these days I must say. Unfortunately the price counts against it (in my case!) and I do still rather like my idea of an over-wound alnico 2 that I can tap to get back into more standard strat territory if desired. Have appreciated all your posts though TC, cheers - has helped me to think about what I need/want for this guitar.

Megii

Bizarre, but my replies to TC were not appearing in the thread - hence I replied twice! But now there they both are... oh well!

Megii

In fact both posts displayed twice, no idea why! Not that it matters.