Shergold Modulator Restoration!!

impmann

Thanks for the advice! If the glue will melt with the iron "days" after application, are you saying that I don't need to apply any more to the body?

I'm going to have a go with some scraps...

impmann

Ok... I tried with some scraps. Same result.

Its clear that either my skills do not extend to veneering, this particular veneer is crap or Andy makes this look a lot easier that I thought it would be (or all of the above).

So I'm now stuck. The work I've done on the guitar assumed a covering of veneer so its nowhere near good enough for a paint finish over the top and based on the past 24hrs, I'm not going to be able to make this veneering lark work by the looks of things.

 

Any ideas? 

Andyjr1515

Looking at that, I think it's the veneer.  The splitting that is common is where it splits along the grain lines - like this:

Yours looks like it's split (well - broken!) across the grain pattern.

Let me check in the loft - I may still have a sheet of this myrtle:

It is VERY forgiving and I don't recall having any splitting with it at all.  

If I've still got a sheet, you are very welcome to it for nowt - but it might be a bit blingy for what you are trying to achieve (not sure what look you are going for)

If it is too much, then maybe try a relatively un-figured maple veneer - again, they tend to be fairly stable.

EDIT: Just checked and yes, I still have a sheet of myrtle if you want it... 

 

Andyjr1515

The other option, of course, is to use constructional veneer.  It is 1.5mm thick and therefore glueable in the normal way (titebond or any decent wood glue, and clamp it under a flat wooden board until it's dry).

The constructional stuff comes fairly plain which may be what you're after.  You have to call for the sizes and woods available, but The Wood Veneer Hub provide a great service.

Their Ash constructional veneer (avail 1.5mm or 2.5mm) is here

impmann

Andy, 

That is so kind of you! 

I don't know what to say - but thanks.

This is a very brittle thing, it splits if you even look at it wrong. 

In terms of bling... yes, it is a bit "showy" for what I was trying to achieve. TBH, all I wanted to do was to make the front of this thing look less like a dog's dinner - I guess if I had a grainy veneer, I could consider an opaque or see through finish which may not look "original" but frankly... so what!

I'll ping you a PM.

But a public "thanks"! :-)

Andyjr1515

No problem.  Got to hold up the reputation of veneer as a valid finishing option, after all 

If this one fails too (but it shouldn't, because I reckon you are doing everything right), then there is always the constructional veneer as a fallback.  That stuff is as tough as old boots!

Andy

impmann

OK... lets take a deep breath and try again...

Andy's package arrived with the gorgeous Myrtle veneer inside. So I took a small section off the end and tried on a scrap piece of pine I had in the shed. Following Andy's advice, I bought a bottle of Evostick PVA wood glue (the green bottle) and applied that with a roller. I didn't have any more foam rollers, so used an emulsion one (lambswool type) and applied the new glue to the new veneer.

As you can see in this picture, the curling was minimal and no cracking. I waited with bated breath for the 20mins so the glue would go off and then ironed it onto the scrap... SUCCESS!!!

The black marks at the top left are bits of the news paper that got stuck to the veneer, as I put too much water on the flip side of it... and so it stuck to the Mother-in-Law's Daily Hate.

Buoyed by this success, I decided to have another go with the body... 

Again, following Andy's advice I applied a fresh layer of glue to the body and the veneer, applied a little less water to the flip side and let the veneer rest on some polystyrene to save it from picking up any more Daily Hate. I made a cup of tea and waited 20 mins...

As you can see, the curling was minimal and again, no cracking... it was time to be brave and iron it onto the body.

This was part way through the process - you can see how much 'bend' you can achieve with iron. However, a crease was forming on the lower edge and no matter what I did, I wasn't going away until...

Bollocks.

Still it wasn't getting any bigger and the rest of the veneer seemed to be going on really nicely. So I kept at it.

Cutting the veneer back was pretty heart-in-mouth stuff. Andy advised using the yellow disposable sharp knives... so guess what, I invested £2.99 in a pack of three. They did blunt remarkably quickly and I was glad of having three. 

After about three quarters of an hour of cutting, trimming and hoping for the best I got to this point...

This picture is a little flattering, as I don't believe for half a second that my trimming and fitting is anywhere near as flawless as Andy's creations. It will need a fair amount of sanding to feather it all in and its not perfect around the neck joint *at all*. BUT, I believe with a burst around the edges to hide my less than perfect trimming and the nasty end grain of the original body this is going to look beautiful.

I couldn't resist a quick mock up... or two...

Huge thanks to Andy for his support, advice and not least for the veneer. The guitar is transformed!!

So... now comes the BIG question. What to finish it in. I know it needs a burst - so what sort of burst? I'm not a fan of cherry burst, but I could be persuaded to do a smokey tobacco burst or my original thought was greenburst that was an option when it was new. I'm still unemployed so costs are a big consideration.

So what are everyone's thoughts on colour choice?

WezV

green burst

impmann

This is greenburst on a later Modulator....

meltedbuzzbox

Pink Paisley for the win

impmann

meltedbuzzbox said:

Pink Paisley for the win

Don't tell me...

"needs a Bigsby"

meltedbuzzbox

I dont think I would ever suggest that to be honest. 

but that laminate just reminds me of paisley for some reason...

impmann

:-)

I'm not 100% certain I can afford a pro respray. 

Does anyone have any ideas for doing it at home? Especially a home which is in the depths of winter, with nowhere warm enough to spray paint!! Is there any way of staining the body and then applying the blacking for the burst... and then finishing with tru oil? I have a bottle of Rothko and Frost Emerald Green stain in the cupboard already...

Or am I dreaming to even consider it?

WezV

Hand rubbed bursts are possible, but quite difficult. Some good vids on youtube

Andyjr1515

Hi Impmann. I am DELIGHTED at what you have achieved here. It looks brilliant As long as there is no PVA left on the surface after sanding, you can stain it...with or without burst and either tru oil or varnish, all wiped on in the kitchen or spare room. I'll post an example of this particular veneer inked in red when I get onto my proper computer later this am as an example.

Andyjr1515

There are a few things to pass on, so might split it into a couple of posts.

That particular veneer stains very well.  This was the first one I did with it, and I think the first time I used ink as a stain:

The veneer will stain just as well with Chestnut stains!

Ref bursts, I will describe how I do them using inks...spirit stains will work similarly but you will presumably need to use spirit thinners too (@WezV ?).  The advantage I have with ink is that I can use water as a thinner.  Nevertheless, the principles should be the same.

This Westone bass has a black-green to green burst in ink with a tru-oil finish, all done wipe-on indoors:

It's actually very simple.  I don't like the bursts to be too dramatic (ie black to final colour) but you can achieve that if you want.

Broadly the steps are simply:

• Do an initial light stain wash all over.  I say 'wash' - it's a wipe over with a microfibre cloth
• Mix a (usually tiny) bit of black ink/stain with the coloured ink/stain and do the sides and immediate wrap-around area
• Mix even less black ink/stain with the coloured ink/stain, overlapping the darker edge and do the transition zone
• Finish with your original light stain, all over - this will leech the demarcation areas to an extent.
• If it is now too dark in the middle, very lightly sand that area to expose the veneer again (don't know about spirit stain, but ink does not actually soak in that much) and then just wipe over the lightest application of the light stain to that area

As always, try it on your scrap first.

But before you do any of the above, there's a couple of things you need to do, which I'll post in a mo' 

Andyjr1515

First - that crack.  Don't worry about it...it can be fixed.

Do you remember my 2014 Summer Challenge offset?  That was a difficult veneer to use - very prone to splitting.  This is what I had:

Look familiar?  

I use this Metolux filler, obtainable from decorators merchants.  It sometimes goes under the name of Timbermate.  I won't go into detail but it is fantastic stuff.

  

Go for the stainable ones (there is light or this one med/dark).  Not only will it stain once applied, to a certain extent, but much better is that you can mix the stain in before you apply it.

This is that same guitar, complete with same crack, after filling:

 

Andyjr1515

So, finally, a few tips and techniques before you actually start staining.

The main thing is to get all of the PVA off.  It will flatly reject any stain and show as a white patch on the finished product.

Easiest way of finding if you have any is to just wipe over the guitar all over with a damp (not wet) cloth.  The wood and veneer will darken but the PVA will show up as a white or cream patch.

Here's a bit I missed circled:

 

The arrow points to what you are aiming for - getting the join even and thin.  The PVA does show as a very thin line, but it acts as a mini-demarcation rather than a glue smear.

To achieve that - and to avoid tearing the edges of the veneer - then always sand this way, along the join, not across it as with the thick green arrows here:

Be careful if there is any veneer overhang - it chips off easily - but once down the the actual join line, you can sand quite firmly and the curve of the body edge will create the smooth and neat curve of the join line

Hope all of the above helps.  I'm really impressed what you've achieved so far! 

impmann

Awesome, Andy! Thanks for all that!!

meltedbuzzbox

I have colour stains mate. If you can mix them with the tru oil you are welcome to them