Enhancer for LR Baggs M1A

Branshen

I've had an M1A for close to 5 years now on my only acoustic, a cheap yamaha plywood dread. The dread is a basic acoustic guitar but it sounds very good. I've gigged this combination many times and have been satisfied so far.

Tonight I had my first acoustic gig in a long time (I've been gigging mainly electric). My duet partner plays a new-ish 8-Series Taylor and the tone just blew my humble rig out of the water. Everything about his amplified guitar sound just sounded so much more lifelike, and mine sounded like a cheap piezo system. 

Unamplified, his guitar is richer in sound but the disparity is not to the extent showcased when the instruments are amplified over a PA. I truly believe the problem of my system is the pickup and not the guitar itself, particularly because these amplification systems don't really amplify the body per se, but only the strings (barring the expensive mic systems). Is there any way enhance the M1A to get a more lifelike amplified acoustic tone? There are a few options on the market, namely 

1. Fishman Aura Spectrum

2. TC Electronic Bodyrez

3. Zoom A3

4. LR Baggs Venue DI

5. A simple Boss GE-7 ???

Has anyone tried any of these solutions and do they work? Am I just wasting my time with the M1A or my trusty Yammie?

ICBM

With that guitar, yes you're wasting your time. Up to a point a good pickup system will compensate for a weak guitar, but beyond a certain point… no.

If you do want to try something to improve it without changing the guitar or the pickup, don't get the Fishman. It's designed to work with an undersaddle transducer and it won't work properly otherwise. It must have exactly the type of source the processing is expecting or it won't give the right result at all. (It's *extremely* sensitive to this.)

The GE-7 wont make the sound more 'acoustic' but it may improve the tonal balance - although I don't think that's what you need.

I haven't tried the others although I have tried the Baggs Para DI, and that's what I would recommend.

But really you need a better guitar.

Branshen

Cheers for that @ICBM. I have considered getting a new guitar but since funds are not free flowing, that will have to wait. I would love to upgrade to a Yamaha L-Series.

Also, does the M1A sound very different on different acoustics? I'm sure you've had chances to test out this pickup in multiple acoustics. 

ICBM

Branshen said:

Cheers for that @ICBM. I have considered getting a new guitar but since funds are not free flowing, that will have to wait. I would love to upgrade to a Yamaha L-Series.

Also, does the M1A sound very different on different acoustics? I'm sure you've had chances to test out this pickup in multiple acoustics. 

Not a lot, actually - and none in a live context. They do sound noticeably different in different guitars though.

Even a magnetic soundhole pickup does depend on the tone of the guitar quite a lot - it's more complex than just picking up the string movement. Because it's mounted on the soundboard, it also picks up the movement of the soundboard relative to the strings, and because the strings are affected by the top vibration at the bridge their inherent sound is also affected by the guitar. The Baggs is specifically designed to be more sensitive to top vibration even than normal, too - it has a suspended hum-cancelling coil instead of it being attached to the string-sensing one.

I'm not just being a snob about cheap plywood guitars either - I have been known to gig with an old Eko with a Seymour Duncan soundhole pickup . And yes, it does sound somewhat primitive compared to my Gibson with Fishman Aura .

Branshen

@ICBM I hope you don't mind me picking your brain a little. What are your thoughts on live micing? Apart from the obvious restrictions imposed on movements.

Do you like the sound of a close miced SM57? I do have one to use and also a couple of condensers. Of course this will largely depend on the venue and how feedback prone the environment is.

thomasross20

I think I've decided against any soundhole pick-up myself. They might be the best when considering fighting feedback but I don't like the thought of something hanging across my soundhole. I really like the Lyric or Anthem - something like that.. 

Branshen

@thomasross20 have a read through the acoustic guitar forum. They review plenty of amplification solutions and they'll have lots of feedback on the ones you want to get.

One I hear about alot from there is the k&k pure mini.

thomasross20

Yeah I've heard that's pretty good, however just watching a few YouTube clips, the Baggs pick-up sounds better to my ears (should do given the price!). 

Lewy

thomasross20;866765" said:

the Baggs pick-up sounds better to my ears (should do given the price!). 

Regarding price, bear in mind that with the Lyric at least one sweepable mid (Lo) and ideally two (Lo and Hi mid) are essential to ensure a good sound in a variety of settings. So if your mixer doesn't have that, then you'll need to factor in the additional cost of a preamp that does.

Also, the Lyric will only give you the bass that your guitar gives it, and is only as good as the bass-reproducing capability of the p.a. you're plugged into. If you want the enhanced bass that has become synonymous with plugged in acoustic, go Anthem.

ICBM

Branshen said:

@ICBM I hope you don't mind me picking your brain a little. What are your thoughts on live micing? Apart from the obvious restrictions imposed on movements.

Do you like the sound of a close miced SM57? I do have one to use and also a couple of condensers. Of course this will largely depend on the venue and how feedback prone the environment is.

Movement is the main issue, not feedback. A dynamic mic is no more sensitive to feedback than a vocal mic, although a condenser will be.

I have a little anecdote. Years ago I had a Taylor 312CE with Fishman Prefix electrics to which I had added a Rare Earth magnetic, so I could blend the two - I thought it sounded really good. I went to an acoustic-festival type of gig with it - most of the other performers had things like decent Takamines, Yamahas, other Taylors etc, and watching them all I was feeling very pleased with myself that although theirs were not bad, *my* guitar sounded much better. Which it did…

And then a girl turned up with a battered old Seagull acoustic. It had no pickup, so the soundman just went over and stuck spare SM58 (not even a 57) in front of it. She strummed one chord and instantly every electro-acoustic in the room, including mine, sounded like a cheap electric guitar with an acoustic simulator.

There is absolutely no comparison. The problem with mic'ing is that it's very hard to get a consistent sound unless you're sitting down, and even then the mic is quite sensitive to small changes in position.

Branshen said:

One I hear about alot from there is the k&k pure mini.

thomasross20 said:

Yeah I've heard that's pretty good, however just watching a few YouTube clips, the Baggs pick-up sounds better to my ears (should do given the price!). 

I know this is in stuck-record territory here, but I *really* wouldn't advise fitting a lot of electrics into the guitar. I genuinely don't see the point and you're leaving yourself wide open to potential reliability problems.

I would go for something like a K&K - which sounds good - and an external EQ/DI, or an undersaddle transducer and a more sophisticated preamp like the Fishman Aura. The K&K sounds better inherently but is slightly more feedback-prone, although it's not too bad. A UST sounds worse inherently but is more feedback-resistanct and produces a cleaner signal with is more suited to external processing.

Either of them involves nothing more than the pickup and an endpin jack in the guitar, so there are no batteries to go down, no preamps to fail, in fact very little in the way of anything to go wrong at all. Keep all that stuff in an external box which you can easily replace or bypass in seconds in an emergency - even if the resulting sound isn't as good.

thomasross20

Ok, so anthem over lyric.
And point taken about minimising the electrics.
First call will be a pup change in my electric

Branshen

@ICBM Thanks for the input. I have shifted my ideas abit. I don't think I can afford to get a satisfactory system (Guitar and pickups) at the moment, but I am completely taken to the idea of live miking. I'll explore the idea for a bit before committing.