Flashpoint: B-52s over Senkaku

guitargeek62

Just had a read of this, bit of the usual saber rattling but it's an interesting move by the US following Chinas rebuttal of them last week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25110011

I saw one of these once, but I didn't quite get the scale of it until this pic;

holnrew

They obviously wanted to be noticed.

Emp_Fab

Bloody hell, those things are prehistoric!  They are over sixty years old and they used to use those engines on the old 707 and DC8.

I thought it was only the RAF that flew museum pieces.

ESBlonde

The basic airframe is still a decent enough platform to do the job (carry lots or bambs a long distance) and with an upgrade of modern avionics and new more efficient engines the current models will be flying for many years yet.

A brand new aircraft would be expensive to develope and still be just a subsonic bomber, the B2 and such have the stealth thing sorted and the B52 (BUFF - Big Ugly Fat Fekker) does the job.

Cirrus

Just looking at the map and not knowing anything of the history, Japan's "air defense identification zone" goes closer to China than the one China's proposing goes close to Japan.

America should butt the fuck out of it, what the hell is it to do with them? Bunch of militaristic cunts.

mike_l

So what benefit does owning the islands give the owner, or put another way, what natural resources are there to be exploited???

 

@guitageek62, I live on the flightpath into Alconbury, when you see one and it's over both front and back of the house at the same time, you really do appreciate the size of them. Even more than standing next to one (at Duxford)

Fretwired

Cirrus said:

Just looking at the map and not knowing anything of the history, Japan's "air defense identification zone" goes closer to China than the one China's proposing goes close to Japan.

America should butt the fuck out of it, what the hell is it to do with them? Bunch of militaristic cunts.

America wants to protect Taiwan. China wants Taiwan back. They'll be a war over it at some point.

randomhandclaps

Country fly old planes in risky area?  It's surely an insurance scam.

IanSavage

Bloody hell; just one of those starting one engine would be enough to negate my entire lifetime of trying to reduce my carbon footprint. I wonder why I bother  

luscombe

Despite it's age the B52 is still the most capable heavy bomber in the world. The aviation world doesn't respond to fads and fashions. If a design was good it will probably stay in service until something genuinely better comes along. that's why some 1930's Douglas DC3's (or Dakota's as they're know in the UK) are still in service with some specialised airlines operating in remote areas.

 

I'm pleased the US has shown support for Japan over this disputed airspace

The Chinese are complete tossers sometimes. They make all this fuss over this issue, yet after the recent hurricane disaster in the Phillipines they hardly provided any aid, even though the affected area was on the border of China. England sent our aircraft carrier, the Illustrious, with 500 tonnes of aid on board, along with 7 helicopters and the personnel & staff to operate them to lift the aid to remote areas. I understand China sent the equivalent of £100,000, a pittance when you think they are due to land a spacecraft on the moon very soon

Every time I pick up a paper I have to read about how China is  an industrial powerhouse and is set to become the major power on the world stage.

India is exactly the same. The truth is these so called 'emerging economies' have little compassion for their own people yet alone another country no matter how close they are to their borders.

That is the difference between western civillizations ( particulary the UK) and these emerging economies who wear western suits & ties and pretend to be civilized. UK may no longer be a superpower, but we can still show these Johnny come lately's how to behave on the world stage.

ESBlonde

luscombe said:

Despite it's age the B52 is still the most capable heavy bomber in the world. The aviation world doesn't respond to fads and fashions. If a design was good it will probably stay in service until something genuinely better comes along. that's why some 1930's Douglas DC3's (or Dakota's as they're know in the UK) are still in service with some specialised airlines operating in remote areas.

 

I'm pleased the US has shown support for Japan over this disputed airspace

The Chinese are complete tossers sometimes. They make all this fuss over this issue, yet after the recent hurricane disaster in the Phillipines they hardly provided any aid, even though the affected area was on the border of China. England sent our aircraft carrier, the Illustrious, with 500 tonnes of aid on board, along with 7 helicopters and the personnel & staff to operate them to lift the aid to remote areas. I understand China sent the equivalent of £100,000, a pittance when you think they are due to land a spacecraft on the moon very soon

Every time I pick up a paper I have to read about how China is  an industrial powerhouse and is set to become the major power on the world stage.

India is exactly the same. The truth is these so called 'emerging economies' have little compassion for their own people yet alone another country no matter how close they are to their borders.

That is the difference between western civillizations ( particulary the UK) and these emerging economies who wear western suits & ties and pretend to be civilized. UK may no longer be a superpower, but we can still show these Johnny come lately's how to behave on the world stage.

You are essentially right in what you say, but remember when Britain was emerging through the industrial revolution we had children working in the mills underneath unguarded machines and going up chimneys. Miners started work as soon as they became teenagers etc. 

People now coming up to retirement could have started work at 15! indeed we have a couple at my employment now. Much heavy industry here was still unsafe (by our modern standards) in the current working lifetime, the 60s only looks good to the very few trendys whilst the rest still lived in slums and died young.. We should not impose all our values on others unless we also bestow the gifts and wealth we have attained. Yes their human rights are very questionable and encouraging them to modernise their thinking is vital where possible. 

I also agree that India and China should have coughed up and provided better logistics with their location to the disaster.

That said no one sent relief to us here last month when we had a strong breeze. I had a tree down in my back garden. Luckily I was able to stand the pot back up.

hungrymark

Fretwired said:

Cirrus said:

Just looking at the map and not knowing anything of the history, Japan's "air defense identification zone" goes closer to China than the one China's proposing goes close to Japan.

America should butt the fuck out of it, what the hell is it to do with them? Bunch of militaristic cunts.

America wants to protect Taiwan. China wants Taiwan back. They'll be a war over it at some point.

I love your predictions Fret. The Conservatives are finished, war in Taiwan etc. If I had a penny for every one of your predictions that have come true over the years I'd have...ooh, at least 3p ;-)

Keep them coming!

hungrymark

Emp_Fab said:

Bloody hell, those things are prehistoric!  They are over sixty years old and they used to use those engines on the old 707 and DC8.

I thought it was only the RAF that flew museum pieces.

The B52 is going to stay in service til at least the 2040s, they reckon. By which time it'll be close to 100 years old. Bonkersly durable aircraft.

guitargeek62

We had one land at St Mawgan once, that's the only time I've seen one up close - I do need to make a trip to Duxford at some point though, we've been trying to get my Grandad to make the trip for years!

They really are pretty amazing things though, and most of the reasoning behind their longevity has already been said. I doubt we'll see any more super-bombers like these again once they're out of service, just more reliance upon drone aircraft that can target more precisely. 

Then again, @fretwired has a valid point in that this could easily be an area that starts a clash between the US & China (hence the title). Especially given the US' treaties with Japan and the need to maintain an element of control & pressure against China to try and preserve the status quo. I doubt it would escalate to a full-blown conflict any time soon, but a ship-sinking, or downed-aircraft really won't surprise me on either side.

ICBM

mike_l said:

So what benefit does owning the islands give the owner, or put another way, what natural resources are there to be exploited???

Would you be surprised if it was oil and gas?

HAL9000

So what if B52s are prehistoric? I still wouldn't want to be on the receiving end...

bertie

if its that big, why the hell arent they sitting inside the fucking plane eh ?

guitargeek62

Duh, they're the new Crunchie wingwalker team.

bertie

plane's a bit flakey eh ?

luscombe

ESBlonde said:

luscombe said:

Despite it's age the B52 is still the most capable heavy bomber in the world. The aviation world doesn't respond to fads and fashions. If a design was good it will probably stay in service until something genuinely better comes along. that's why some 1930's Douglas DC3's (or Dakota's as they're know in the UK) are still in service with some specialised airlines operating in remote areas.

 

I'm pleased the US has shown support for Japan over this disputed airspace

The Chinese are complete tossers sometimes. They make all this fuss over this issue, yet after the recent hurricane disaster in the Phillipines they hardly provided any aid, even though the affected area was on the border of China. England sent our aircraft carrier, the Illustrious, with 500 tonnes of aid on board, along with 7 helicopters and the personnel & staff to operate them to lift the aid to remote areas. I understand China sent the equivalent of £100,000, a pittance when you think they are due to land a spacecraft on the moon very soon

Every time I pick up a paper I have to read about how China is  an industrial powerhouse and is set to become the major power on the world stage.

India is exactly the same. The truth is these so called 'emerging economies' have little compassion for their own people yet alone another country no matter how close they are to their borders.

That is the difference between western civillizations ( particulary the UK) and these emerging economies who wear western suits & ties and pretend to be civilized. UK may no longer be a superpower, but we can still show these Johnny come lately's how to behave on the world stage.

You are essentially right in what you say, but remember when Britain was emerging through the industrial revolution we had children working in the mills underneath unguarded machines and going up chimneys. Miners started work as soon as they became teenagers etc. 

People now coming up to retirement could have started work at 15! indeed we have a couple at my employment now. Much heavy industry here was still unsafe (by our modern standards) in the current working lifetime, the 60s only looks good to the very few trendys whilst the rest still lived in slums and died young.. We should not impose all our values on others unless we also bestow the gifts and wealth we have attained. Yes their human rights are very questionable and encouraging them to modernise their thinking is vital where possible. 

I also agree that India and China should have coughed up and provided better logistics with their location to the disaster.

That said no one sent relief to us here last month when we had a strong breeze. I had a tree down in my back garden. Luckily I was able to stand the pot back up.

I Agree with what you're saying ESBlonde. That's what annoys me about factories in Asia accusing us of 'forcing' them to employ people in dangerous conditions because we demand cheap goods. At one time the mills of Lancashire supplied 99% of the worlds fabric, and yes, they employed children in dangerous factories to produce this fabric. We have worked hard to improve safety and working conditions for our workers. A lot of this was brought about by trade unions and individual workers who were prepared to make a stand. but many improvements were also introduced by wealthy factory owners in all types of industries who genuinely cared about their workforce and could see the value of having a workforce who were happy.

That's why I get so angry with the constant influx of immigrants to our small but beautiful country. They come here to enjoy the standards and conditions that our ancestors have worked hard to provide. And these people expect all the benefits without ever contributing a penny.

 

I realise these statements will effectively brand me as a racist amongst the liberal leftists that seem to dominate the music world, but frankly I don't give a damn.

guitargeek62

luscombe said:

And these people expect all the benefits without ever contributing a penny.

I realise these statements will effectively brand me as a racist amongst the liberal leftists that seem to dominate the music world, but frankly I don't give a damn.

Nope, just that last line was enough to show you up.