Planer/Thicknesser?

Nomad

I suppose the first question should be whether or not I should get one...

I want to sandwich planks together to make a lap steel. I have some 20mm thick meranti bought from the local wood place. Is this likely to be flat enough as is, or do I need to run it though one of these thicknesser machines to get the faces nice and flat to get a good join? To put it another way, if it's decently flat (I assume it was put through a similar machine when it was originally processed into planks), will gluing with plenty of clamps be good enough?

If a machine is on the cards, what should I be looking for with a budget up to around 300quid? This one looks quite nice and seems to have good reviews...

http://www.axminster.co.uk/jet-jwp-12-benchtop-thicknesser-100412

Machine Mart do what looks like a 10" wide version of the same machine with different branding...

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/fox-f22-561-10-portable-thicknesser-230v/

The powered feed rollers seem like a good idea. I'd likely be using it bolted/clamped to a folding Workmate type of thing, and the powered feed would seem to be a good way to eliminate any lateral forces causes by errors in manual feed rate, thus avoiding potential issues with the stability of the setup.

Thoughts?

Sambostar

I've always wrestled with getting a bench planer thicknesser.  My thoughts have always been, as a 12" isn't wide enough to do a one piece body, and the ones that are wide enough are, are at a whole new price point and I wouldn't use it often enough to justify it, I've just let it lie .  Also blades etc are expensive and consumable and you still get tearout on funny grains.

I take the overhead job router route.  You can get good results if your work is secure, you knock out the meat first and then take extremely thin passes and your jig is sturdy enough.

You can get a tablesaw and a router for the price of a thicknesser.

If I do have to knock something down within 5mm I take it down the local timber yard and they run it through for me on their kerchunking very expensive bench planer.

ftumch

It was one of those bastard things that ate my little finger albeit a much bigger one. Just thought I'd mention it, you know for sympathy.

octatonic

The Meranti is unlikely to be square enough to join straight from the supplier.

You have linked to a pair of thicknessers- they don't have a planer capability.

You cannot really plane with a thicknesser as you don't have a 90 degree angle to push the work against.

The smallest planers tend not to be that accurate enough but you might be able to find something that works well enough for this project.

If you are reasonably close to Oxford I can help you out- I have a Jet JPT260 and a drum sander.

Not free but fairly cheap for processing.

Otherwise, a good hand plane and a straight edge will be a lot cheaper, albeit labour intensive.

I had to do it this way for my lutherie degree- there is worth in being able to do it that way as you learn a lot about grain direction and how to handle a plane.

It might be frustrating though.

Nomad

Oxford is a few hundred miles away, I'm afraid.

Been having a look at the two bits, and I have to say, they seem to mate pretty well. Can't see any light between them when I look into the edge and wiggle them about. Methinks I shall leave it for now.

Does a planer/thicknesser have a separate bit for planning, then?

octatonic

Yes this is a planer/thicknesser:

The planer is the top bit, the thicknesser is fed through underneath.

Regarding mating the two pieces up.

Do you have a straight edge?

Put the straight edge across both pieces and see if there is any rocking or light visible.

Don't test just the middle of the piece- check it both directions, as well as diagonally.

Nomad

octatonic said:

The planer is the top bit, the thicknesser is fed through underneath.

Gotcha.

octatonic said:

Regarding mating the two pieces up.

Do you have a straight edge?

Put the straight edge across both pieces and see if there is any rocking or light visible.

Don't test just the middle of the piece- check it both directions, as well as diagonally.

Will do. Din-din first...

Nomad

Returning to this topic for a moment, while browsing the web site of the local clamp shop, I found this...

http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb579pln-204mm-planer-thicknesser-230v/15774

...which looks to be the same as this with a different badge...

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cpt800-204mm-planer-thicknesser/

...and costs 90 quid less at £150. Lots of reviews on Screwfix gushing about it. Anyone got any experience of this particular model, with whatever badge on it?

chickenbonejohn

At that price I wouldn't expect much from it - cheap power workshop tools are almost always a false economy. Most decent entry level combination planer thicknessers cost 10 times that. When I was thinking about getting a machine, a friend of mine who is a cabinet maker and guitar maker advised me to get basic 6" SIP planer and a 13" Axminster thicknesser. He set me straight about planing and thicknessing being two quite different functions. Use the planer to put one flat face and one square edge on the timber, then the thicknesser to bring the piece to a parallel uniform thickness. Using a thicknesser on a piece of timber which hasn't been planed true will just result in a uniformly thick bent piece of timber. 

A decent woodyard will plane and thickness the timber for you. As an alternative that will always set you in good stead,  learn to use a hand plane - it' s not that difficult and it's a basic woodworking skill. I still rely old my old Stanley and Record planes.

Ché

We had an old Wadkins one kicking around in the shop that we sold a while back that would have done you.

Normally you plane one side flat to the bed of the planer to take any bow out of the peice. Then when you've got a nice square edge you run it through the thicknesser which cuts from the top and sorts out the other edge. Do the same for the faces.

Once you've joined your pieces you would probably need to run it through a sander a few times after scraping off the excess glue.

Is this something you're going to do a lot of?

GSPBASSES

If you are still looking for a planer / thicknesser this one will be up for sale ( about £200 ) in about 4 weeks time when I close down one of my work shops. It will fit in the back of a hatchback or a  estate car.

         

Roland

Nomad said:

Returning to this topic for a moment, while browsing the web site of the local clamp shop, I found this...

http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb579pln-204mm-planer-thicknesser-230v/15774

...which looks to be the same as this with a different badge...

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cpt800-204mm-planer-thicknesser/

...and costs 90 quid less at £150. Lots of reviews on Screwfix gushing about it. Anyone got any experience of this particular model, with whatever badge on it?

They could easily be made in the same Chinese factory. Many cheap machine tools are, and the badged to suit the customer. Screwfix and Machinemart both have a grinder/honer in their catalogues, but neither has stock because the Chinese manufacturer has ceased trading.

Since the price differential between these two is so large it's possible that their are quality differences in motors, transmissions and blades

Roland

GSPBASSES said:

If you are still looking for a planer / thicknesser this one will be up for sale ( about £200 ) in about 4 weeks time when I close down one of my work shops. It will fit in the back of a hatchback and estate car.

Tempting.

octatonic

Roland said:

Nomad said:

Returning to this topic for a moment, while browsing the web site of the local clamp shop, I found this...

http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb579pln-204mm-planer-thicknesser-230v/15774

...which looks to be the same as this with a different badge...

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cpt800-204mm-planer-thicknesser/

...and costs 90 quid less at £150. Lots of reviews on Screwfix gushing about it. Anyone got any experience of this particular model, with whatever badge on it?

They could easily be made in the same Chinese factory. Many cheap machine tools are, and the badged to suit the customer. Screwfix and Machinemart both have a grinder/honer in their catalogues, but neither has stock because the Chinese manufacturer has ceased trading.

Since the price differential between these two is so large it's possible that their are quality differences in motors, transmissions and blades

This is a another problem with the cheap ones- getting parts.

Personally I would avoid- they are unlikely to be accurate enough to be worth it.

An inaccurate planer/thicknesser is a total waste of time.

Or buy it from somewhere with a return policy.

WezV

I got a SIP 10x6 planner thicknesser second hand off ebay for £50.

It had been well used, but only on softwood. cleaned up nice and is still going strong quite a few years later

Nomad

Thanks again, folks. To respond to a few points...

I can appreciate that two separate machines might be better, but space is an issue. As it is, I barely have room for a combined machine like the 8" Titan. Granted, the workshop (spare bedroom) is a mess and needs sorting out, and there's a plan for that, but even then, space is still going to be at something of a premium. One thought I had is to keep the machine under a bench on a little trolley of sorts and pull it out for when I expect to use it. The bench I have in mind would have nearly 900mm of clearance underneath, so this could be feasible.

Use of such a machine is probably going to be occasional at most (hence the under-bench trolley idea). My main interest is squaring up smaller pieces of wood up to solid body electric guitar size (lets say, the size of a through-body neck, and halves of a two-piece body). Not made a guitar before, so this would be a first machine for trying this out, and I can see the potential usefulness for squaring up other bits of wood in a more general sense. No bulk processing of timber or serious DIY stuff.

@chickenbonejohn, I'm afraid 1500 quid for a planer/thicknesser (or pair of machines) is simply out of the question. My target is something cheap an cheerful at the budget end, or possibly something better used. I'm not averse to using manual planes, but would have to say that I'd rather use a machine if it has the accuracy, if only for the time saving and general ease of use.

@GSPBASSES, thanks, that looks like a very good price for that machine, but it's much too large for the space I have, and you're a long way from Edinburgh. (@Roland, feel free to be tempted.)

I appreciate that the Chinese machines can be variable, that the different brands are usually made in the same factory, and that there are sometimes spec changes for a particular brand. On the whole, I've found that the ones that get reviewed well (with lots of reviews) can be very serviceable, although they may need some tweaking or at least adjustment. I had to upgrade some of the parts on my Clarke metal lathe (eg, gibs for the carriage), and I think everything has needed adjustment. Even the Axminster bandsaw needed the main spindle at the drive wheel aligned because it wasn't cutting true when a piece was fed in at right angles (the blade was pulling to the side, and getting the fence parallel to the way it wanted to cut resulted in it being 2-3 degrees off square). Although, in principle, it shouldn't be necessary, I'm not beyond making better replacement components in some instances and, within reason, I'm in a good position to do this with a mechanical engineering background and the machines to do so.

My view is that, with these cheaper machines, it's about trying to find the ones that are cheap and cheerful rather than cheap and nasty - a machine that is basically functional and can be adjusted to get it working well. In some online reviews of flavours of the Titan machine, there were some reports of the in and outfeed tables not being parallel/coplanar, and sometimes some bow on the tables. Anything else seemed to be down to adjustment. I don't recall any reports of the thicknesser table being out of level, although I don't think anybody offered any measurements of the parallelism of the worked pieces either. In a few cases, the machines went back for a refund, and some went back for a replacement which turned out to be fine.

It would seem to me that there is an element of risk involved, entailing picking up and checking out a machine to make sure the basic features are decently square - a potential hassle factor of swapping out in the hope of getting a good one. As for how many times I'd be willing to go through that, I'd probably walk away if I got two duffers in a row, and look at other options. While that's a hassle, the price arguably makes it worthwhile if it works out, or a no-cost machine-humphing experience if it doesn't.

I'm still in two minds about the Titan and other flavours of the same machine, and part of me still feels that two machines might be better (especially a wider thicknesser). Whether or not two is really out of the question depends on how the workshop reorganisation works out - I'm planning a 2.5m wide workbench at one end of the room, for the lathe and mill, so there is scope for a fair amount of trolley-mounted storage space underneath (there is a small table saw in the garage to consider as well). On the other hand, as a first machine, the Titan is cheap enough to not result in tears if it works okay but needs to be upgraded later. My potential use is somewhat unknown at present - it could be all I ever need, or I may find that I need more from one or both functions as time goes on. I think the main thing is to see it as a starter machine, which may need some tweaking and setup, and which comes with a potential for having to be returned/replaced until a good one is found or the idea is given up on and alternatives looked into.

I'm not in a mad rush to do this - it's not really feasible until the workshop is at least sorted out a bit. I'm certainly not averse to buying second hand and will keep an eye on local offerings for a while.

Nomad

Been looking at used and spotted a couple of thicknessers...

There's a Clarke CPT-250 (10") fairly nearby for about 100 quid, and a Jet JWP-300 (12") a bit further away for about 200. Both have feed rollers (no manual feed). Other than the width (and possibly build quality and accuracy), the main difference seems to be minimum cutting depth, which is 12mm for the Clarke, and 6mm for the Jet.

12mm is too large - want to be able to thickness fretboards. Is it feasible to make some sort of support that acts as a space filler for working to smaller thicknesses? I'm thinking of a flat, parallel piece with a raised part added to one end, and feed both bits through. Would that work, or will the bits go all skelly and make a mess?

octatonic

Nomad said:

12mm is too large - want to be able to thickness fretboards. Is it feasible to make some sort of support that acts as a space filler for working to smaller thicknesses? I'm thinking of a flat, parallel piece with a raised part added to one end, and feed both bits through. Would that work, or will the bits go all skelly and make a mess?

You want a drum sander for this, really.

Otherwise you *could* use double sided tape (or masking tape and super glue) to temporarily stick the fingerboard to an MDF board.

Personally I wouldn't do it- the potential for something going wrong is too high.

Do you know about the masking tape and superglue thing?

chickenbonejohn

Nomad said:

Been looking at used and spotted a couple of thicknessers...

There's a Clarke CPT-250 (10") fairly nearby for about 100 quid, and a Jet JWP-300 (12") a bit further away for about 200. Both have feed rollers (no manual feed). Other than the width (and possibly build quality and accuracy), the main difference seems to be minimum cutting depth, which is 12mm for the Clarke, and 6mm for the Jet.

12mm is too large - want to be able to thickness fretboards. Is it feasible to make some sort of support that acts as a space filler for working to smaller thicknesses? I'm thinking of a flat, parallel piece with a raised part added to one end, and feed both bits through. Would that work, or will the bits go all skelly and make a mess?

To thickness down to fretboard thickness, for example, I simply put a 12mm thick piece of MDF or plywood onto the bed of the thicknesser (clamp it down to stop it being dragged through with the workpiece is a good idea). It's then easy to reduce a piece of  stock down to suitable thickness for fretboards or neck laminations etc.

Sporky

On the double-sided thing, this stuff is marvellous - it's a rebranded Intertape one that's brilliant for jigs and such. Really strong grip but removes without any fuss or cleanup needed:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00OOULCWM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=27WH20KJ6EISH&coliid=I1RTI0ZU8AJ3J7

Nomad

I'd forgotten about the masking tape and superglue trick, but did a search and found the Crimson Guitars vid that I saw ages ago. Seems like a good way to go for longer term sticking, but maybe a bit of a faff for using with a thicknesser. I think I'd rather have a machine that readily adjusts to what I need.