American Standard Stratocaster Conversion, product test, feedback wanted

andypwudtone

HI there, we have just released a new product now fitted onto this guitar, it basically converts a 2 post trem fitted as standard into the Wudtone CP Trem.  

Below we have two audio samples X and Y,  the same American Standard Stratocaster, same recording levels,eq,pickup,vol/tone everything identical apart from one audio clip is pre-conversion ( ie with original 2post trem) and one is after conversion to use the Wudtone Constant Pivot Trem. If you have a mo, pls have a listen and let me know, not only which you think is which, but also how you might describe the differences you hear?

http://www.wudtone.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/American-Standard-X.mp3

and 

http://www.wudtone.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/American-Standard-Y.mp3

ThePrettyDamned

Going to PM you my thoughts.

Just as a note, I'm listening through semi decent headphones, but not proper audiophile ones.  PM me the answer?  I'll keep it secret

ThePrettyDamned

Also, I'm pretty tone deaf.  

ddlooping

The differences in the player's dynamics and the fact that the recording of X was clipping doesn't make for an easy comparison.
Y sounded more full-bodied, X more opened, I preferred X but would be equally satisfied with both.  

Kebabkid

Although X sounded nice, Y sounded fuller and tighter, exhibiting more sustain and a little more brightness. I preferred it to X, and like ddlooping, I could live with both.

As an aside, can I ask what the amp was? It reminded me of a Fender Pro Reverb or Vibrolux.

Nice work!

streethawk

At 20 secs, a chord plays and there's some whammy, then another and some whammy. On X - it's much less pronounced.

Tonewise I liked both, Y was warmer. 

ThePrettyDamned

I thought both were great, but X had sweeter treble and more rounded, less boomy bass. I thought y sounded thin, particularly on single note lines, which I find is charactertic of 2 point trems.

Both sounded great. I reckon X was the replacement trem, and preferred it.

Edit: it's quite funny how everyone's opinion differs.

ToneControl

both sounded OK, X was significantly heavier on the mids and lighter on the treble, which I would correct with EQ

Y sounded crisper and more airy, and more like what I'd want to hear, but a small tweak would normally resolve this taste issue either way

I have no idea which would be the replacement trem

Are you sure the pickup to string distance is the same in each clip? This could make more difference than anything else, and you didn't mention it

andypwudtone

ddlooping said:

The differences in the player's dynamics and the fact that the recording of X was clipping doesn't make for an easy comparison.
Y sounded more full-bodied, X more opened, I preferred X but would be equally satisfied with both.  

hey , thank you all for commenting. Interesting to hear perceived difference in the dynamics as being the player. I would just add though a different tool in the hands of the same player is what enables a different dynamic. The guitar fitted with the Wudtone bridge ( audio sample X) has a lot more acoustic volume and so you don't have to put as much effort in. Put the same effort in and through the amp it seems like you are playing with more dynamic. ( same pickup height the guitar is just louder naturally and you can feel more vibration through the back neck , etc, no surprise this, as the bridge is connected to the body differently) . NO plectrum is being used so lots of attack , natural compression etc isn't really being put to the test. Totally biased of course, but the guitar is fatter ( EQ wise ), also has re gained some of that classic Strat bloom, sweetness, bell like chime which I just don't hear with two posts. The chords at the end are much clearer, they have a more piano like quality.  Amp is a Paul Rivera 

Thank you for listening and commenting.  

streethawk

andypwudtone said:

ddlooping said:

The differences in the player's dynamics and the fact that the recording of X was clipping doesn't make for an easy comparison.
Y sounded more full-bodied, X more opened, I preferred X but would be equally satisfied with both.  

hey , thank you all for commenting. Interesting to hear perceived difference in the dynamics as being the player. I would just add though a different tool in the hands of the same player is what enables a different dynamic. The guitar fitted with the Wudtone bridge ( audio sample X) has a lot more acoustic volume and so you don't have to put as much effort in. Put the same effort in and through the amp it seems like you are playing with more dynamic. ( same pickup height the guitar is just louder naturally and you can feel more vibration through the back neck , etc, no surprise this, as the bridge is connected to the body differently) . NO plectrum is being used so lots of attack , natural compression etc isn't really being put to the test. Totally biased of course, but the guitar is fatter ( EQ wise ), also has re gained some of that classic Strat bloom, sweetness, bell like chime which I just don't hear with two posts. The chords at the end are much clearer, they have a more piano like quality.  Amp is a Paul Rivera 

Thank you for listening and commenting.  

Piano like is a good phrase.

Towards the end of the clip, there's a bass note followed by a couple of plucked strings and on x it is more 'piano like'. I prefer that.

On the whole Y was 'warmer', but then you get into the debate about whether strats are meant to sound like that or not. 

Altered playing dynamics aside.

impmann

Hi Andy,

Can I ask how the new trem attaches to the guitar? Ie do you need to dowel out the old post holes etc?

andypwudtone

impmann said:

Hi Andy,

Can I ask how the new trem attaches to the guitar? Ie do you need to dowel out the old post holes etc?

Hi Impmann, 

No need to do any dowelling out. Hopefully we have made it user friendly enough for folks to have the confidence to tackle. Also lets say you wanted to sell the guitar as original, keep the Wudtone bridge to fit on your next, even better deal American Standard, wink wink, ( some of these guitars, which are pretty nice guitars with good necks, seem to go for way less list etc) you can easily pop the two post back on etc . Here's how

The conversion kit has some locking insert/ bearing screws. These screw directly into the metal shanks that are already press fit into the body. First fix the bridge in position with these outer inserts/ bearing screws. Then whilst the bridge is in place use it as template to drill pilot holes for the four inner screws. With the bridge flat, push it forward ( against the two outer bearing screws now fitted ) , position the drill so it is touching the back edge of the inner holes .First drill, 3mm dia drill, down 10mm, then 2mm dia drill, down 25mm. This makes sure you have all six holes in straight line and in the correct place. Then all you need to do is scrape a bit of candle wax on the four inner bearing screws before screwing them down as normal until they just touch the surface of the plate ( when flat). Just ensure they are not gripping the plate, all is well when the plate cannot move up or down at all, but it will still tilt freely ( the design and cut of the reliefs including the recesses in the top of the plate are what enable that ) . That is it. Hope that helps, kind regards

  Easy to retro fit back to a two post ( should you want to ) .

impmann

Sounds great, Andy.

Thanks!!
Tim

andypwudtone

impmann said:

Sounds great, Andy.

Thanks!!
Tim

no worries, forgot to mention the conversion kit comes with either American Standard ( narrower) string spacing, or if you prefer, you can convert to use Vintage 2 7/32 string spacing at the same time. 

chrs

andypwudtone

andypwudtone

impmann said:

Hi Andy,

Can I ask how the new trem attaches to the guitar? Ie do you need to dowel out the old post holes etc?

DrBob

So does it actually need the inner four screws to be fitted ? Would it work with just the outer two ?

andypwudtone

I am confident the sleeved screws on their own are man enough, and it would function OK, however, I haven't tried it, so I can't be certain. 

It won't look as vintage, plus I don't think you would get quite the same difference in the dynamic / tone response, especially from the inner string frequencies. The inner screws are part of what helps to get the energy of the inner string vibrations into the body.

It all helps to make the guitar altogether different, bigger, full of vintage warmth and with more bell like chime. check out the video and in particular the last chords on the clip.   . These are just played on the 5th to 2nd strings and the difference is very clear. It sounds relatively, like someone finally opened the lid on a grand piano, whereas the original two post was , IMHO, usual, pingy and thin.