Muffroom Cloud will be changing its name as of 1 Sept.

Gassage

Look, one thing to bear in mind, if Adrian had wanted to fight this, they'd have had a hard time in court as one could claim that the word Muff is now genericised (google Asprin, 1921 as the test case) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_trademark

I believe Thorpy acted with dignity and made a commercial choice, and I do agree that EHX invented the concept and that is something to be respected.

I believe this is a good outcome for all involved.

randomhandclaps

TimmyO said:

I'll just be sycophanting over here with my pitch fork though. I've run out of opinions on the rest of my life by the way so when you're ready can I have my next one. <rolls eyes> 

Shame.  I would have hoped the rolling of your eyes was you searching for a reasonable counter point to why EHX are the bad guys here.  Because exactly what I said was "Anyone who liked/bought a Muffroom Cloud was a sycophantic pitchfork" didn't I?  Maybe ask the pitchfork, it certainly seems the sharper one out of the pair of you.

TimmyO

I just take exception to the characterising the tone of the forum as 'sycophantic pitchforkery' - this is about the most balanced place I've ever found to geek out about guitars. Many others deserve that sort of snideness but not here. 

The only problem I've ever had with EHX, as I've said, is that my own experience has been pretty poor, entirely unrelated to this. Nor have I said I think they are bad guys. I've enjoyed the humorous plays on words mind. 

Make your point by all means, but why slag off the whole forum? :-/ 

ThorpyFX

randomhandclaps said:

Jalapeno said:

randomhandclaps said:

But in fairness to EHX and their heritage, money pumped into R&D

The Muff range has to be 40yrs old ! (Or were you being ironic) 

For me with regards to the Muffroom Cloud in particular, rather than "Boo, boycott Electro Harmonix!", people should be wishing Electro Harmonix and Thorpy FX the best of success because thanks to both of their efforts you have the availability of a great product.

I haven't quoted everything that was said  but I would just like to defend my position a little (although i don't detect any malice at all).<script 

Firstly the company in question have not bullied me, I'm big enough and ugly enough to defend myself. The gentlemen i dealt with was just that, a gentlemen. We had fair dialogue and negotiated an exit strategy. However be under no illusion, i had no choice because if i had chosen to fight it would have been financially ruinous for me. This is despite receiving plenty of advice from trademark lawyers and trusted confidants that my case would have been pretty strong. Anyway as i have said, better to pick your battles and move on.

The Muffroom is not a clone, it was devised to beat a pedal that is no longer in production by anyone, an original 1970's triangle PNP. I wanted to replicate and beat the tones of a £700 vintage unit but without the drawbacks, that is what my ad copy states, not that i want to beat any production pedal (although that is implied as the vintage units are often considered to be superior). To achieve this the MC need to either a) use NOS components or b) utilise a novel take on things. i went for the latter and it took me bloody ages to nail the tone I wanted to achieve and a lot of money in R&D too.

Why did i choose the name? well I wanted to allude to the inspiration for what i had devised i didn't go for mushroom cloud as i didn't want the negative term "mush" to be associated with the pedal, it is anything but.. I did check the net etc for trademark before it was chosen, I did check with some people in the know and I went for it knowing full well that there are loads of pedal makers out there who have done similar. I assumed (incorrectly) that I would be ok.

Anyway, the long and short of it is this. I love making pedals, I had my fingers burnt, I'm moving on and the pedal will continue with a new name, the circuit remains and hopefully people will continue to enjoy it.

Ed O'Brien of Radiohead is now using it and as plaudits go, for me thats something I'm really proud of.

Drew_TNBD

TimmyO said:

randomhandclaps said:

Jalapeno said:

randomhandclaps said:

But in fairness to EHX and their heritage, money pumped into R&D

The Muff range has to be 40yrs old ! (Or were you being ironic) 

Why would I be being ironic?  The fact it is actually around 45 year old just reiterates my point.  I am fully aware of the history of the Big Muff and it was EHX's development.  I stated earlier in the thread that the build quality and quality control particularly leaves a lot to be desired, but they cater for a market.  Is the Muffroom Cloud better built?  Undoubtedly, but at three times the price you would expect so, so really that point is completely irrelevant to their case.

The point about their heritage is easy to demonstrate.  Try and find a demo of most Muff clones or variants that do not mention Gilmour, Jack White, Smashing Pumpkins etc. all famously using Electro Harmonix gear.  Virtually all demoes talk about 'nailing a tone' referring to a famous tone that came from an EHX pedal.

My really, really blunt take on this is quite simply this - Like it or not the origins of the circuit and the history of the name belong to Electro Harmonix.  The size of Electro Harmonix or the quality of their stuff is completely irrelevant.  For those who say "Big business attacking small business, yada, yada, yada." I would be curious to see the reaction when a Gunshot inevitably arrives in JHS's workshop and they bring out their version.  That is always has the gear business has worked.

I have seen a fair few of Thorpy pedals, both clones from wiring pedalboards and the Gunshot and Muffroom Cloud via Gassage and they are always immaculately well build.  Without going into massive details of circuit etc. the Muffroom Cloud in itself isn't a revolutionary product or ground breaking idea, rather a well executed concept. 

Had the choice be to choose a completely random name then this situation would not have arose at all but equally it would have been harder to make people aware that for those on a muff search that this was a contender.  It was a marketing risk that ultimate could have been shot in the arse before it even began by EHX but fortunately it went unchallenged for long enough to get enough exposure for IMO the future name to be irrelevant.  On top of this I think the "Like a Muff without the flaws" marketing approach was a mistake, unless you were looking to piss them off and had the same approach been taken in comparing to a smaller builder there would be flame wars on the internet about a lack of etiquette.

I don't believe this is a tale of corporate bullying but rather a tale of either a naïve or genius marketing approach which has got a quality product noticed so ultimately was a success. 

If Electro Harmonix had never existed then neither would the Muffroom Cloud.  If Electro Harmonix had not made the Big Muff a household name amongst guitarists then many more people would have stumbled across the Muffroom Cloud and gone "What the fuck is that?" and maybe never have tried it.   As it happens THANKS to Electro Harmonix people can have a more flexible and better built version of a product that they have spent years pushing.

I know this kind of reason doesn't sit with the sycophantic pitch forkery that seems to overtake reason here, but it's pretty hard to argue anything else.  If you do however want to then it can all be summed up by starting with this simple question -

If this is big boys bullying little boys then it can all be summed up in one simple question - How much has Thorpy FX profited Electro Harmonix's efforts and how much Electro Harmonix profited from Thorpy FX's effort?

For me with regards to the Muffroom Cloud in particular, rather than "Boo, boycott Electro Harmonix!", people should be wishing Electro Harmonix and Thorpy FX the best of success because thanks to both of their efforts you have the availability of a great product.

blah blah blah.

I fucking hate Big Muffs. Really really dislike every one I have tried. Only Fuzz I ever liked was the Tonebender MkII

I stumbled across the MC because I like watching The Pedal Show. What I heard I liked. I tried it. I liked it more. I bought it.

I'll just be sycophanting over here with my pitch fork though. I've run out of opinions on the rest of my life by the way so when you're ready can I have my next one. <rolls eyes> 

Oh shut up you dick cheese.

Deijavoo

My POG2 and ThorpyFX SHO Clone are gonna have to be separated on my board now. FFS!

Drew_TNBD

Deijavoo said:

My POG2 and ThorpyFX SHO Clone are gonna have to be separated on my board now. FFS!

They're divorcing. Who takes the kids and the house?

Deijavoo

Drew_fx said:

Deijavoo said:

My POG2 and ThorpyFX SHO Clone are gonna have to be separated on my board now. FFS!

They're divorcing. Who takes the kids and the house?

The Polytune is going it alone. Moving out I reckon. Sad really.

Deijavoo

The Strymons were overheard talking about buying a bigger place but the GAS God seems to be feeling less benevolent all of a sudden.

Drew_TNBD

Deijavoo said:

Drew_fx said:

Deijavoo said:

My POG2 and ThorpyFX SHO Clone are gonna have to be separated on my board now. FFS!

They're divorcing. Who takes the kids and the house?

The Polytune is going it alone. Moving out I reckon. Sad really.

Awww but it's only a Polytune mini. It wont make it on it's own! It should go with daddy until it becomes a full Polytune.

Deijavoo

I'll have you know. It is the daddy, it is, he swears down on his mam's eyes!

Strat_a_tat_tat

Deijavoo said:

I'll have you know. It is the daddy, it is, he swears down on his mam's eyes!

Mam's????

Ooooh... you'll have the "No - it's spelled MOM" brigade after you on that one!

Deijavoo

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

Deijavoo said:

I'll have you know. It is the daddy, it is, he swears down on his mam's eyes!

Mam's????

Ooooh... you'll have the "No - it's spelled MOM" brigade after you on that one!

Are we in fucking Kansas? I suppose the internet is one gigantic organic globule. Very much like a cake. Some bits look different, have different ingredients, and taste very different, yet they are all part of of the same big slice.

Pass me some pumpkin pie on that bed of turtle  shell please Julio. 

Strat_a_tat_tat

@Deijavoo... wander down the nether regions of this thread  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/998755/#Comment_998755 and you'll be as unenlightened as me.

(Don't tell 'em... but I've always used MUM - not the deodorant... as you can tell!). 

randomhandclaps

Apologies for adding a reasoned and balanced view into this seemingly one way doctrine.  Fortunately I was raised as a Catholic so I understand how this shit works.

EricTheWeary

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

Deijavoo said:

I'll have you know. It is the daddy, it is, he swears down on his mam's eyes!

Mam's????

Ooooh... you'll have the "No - it's spelled MOM" brigade after you on that one!

:-O :-O :-O Mam is fine, it's a word in common usage for someone's mother, I dislike that somehow we are all supposed to accept mum or mummy when for many people it isn't the norm and there seems to be an attempt to destroy regional accents and sayings via the greetings card industry. Anyway, had Thorpy called his pedal the Moffroom Cloud all of this would have been avoided... :-B

ThorpyFX

EricTheWeary said:

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

Deijavoo said:

I'll have you know. It is the daddy, it is, he swears down on his mam's eyes!

Mam's????

Ooooh... you'll have the "No - it's spelled MOM" brigade after you on that one!

Anyway, had Thorpy called his pedal the Moffroom Cloud all of this would have been avoided... :-B

indeed, what I will say is that this has been a massive learning curve for me.

nickb_boy

Looking forward to seeing what name you've come up with.
Are you going to keep the theme of weapons and violence and call it something like the Axewound.

Or hint at the magic hidden inside and name it the Wizards Sleeve.

Don't think EHX have any claim over these Muff derivatives.

Drew_TNBD

I fear there is some misunderstanding of the female anatomy in this thread.

Muff = Pubic hair, the tufty stuff right on the top.
Wizards Sleeve = Those big meaty flaps that are quite nice to have on your face

nickb_boy

@Drew_fx;1000387" said:

I fear there is some misunderstanding of the female anatomy in this thread.



Muff = Pubic hair, the tufty stuff right on the top.

Wizards Sleeve = Those big meaty flaps that are quite nice to have on your face

I think you'll find you have fallen for the common misconception:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=muff

It's not Googlescholar or the Oxford Dictionary though but when it comes to slang it's pretty accurate