Solid or laminate ~ how do you tell ?

ChrisMusic

Are there any ways to conclusively tell whether an acoustic has solid wood or laminate back and sides ?

What should I look out for ?

Any guidance gratefully accepted,

cheers,  Chris

ICBM

Usually the best way is to carefully check for wood grain matching on the inside and outside. Obviously that's easier with something strongly-grained like rosewood than something fairly uniform like mahogany…

Sometimes if you pull out the endpin you can see enough of the side wood to tell, although sometimes it will be covered by an inset piece (plastic or wood) that's cut in deeply enough that you can't see.

If neither of those things tell you, and it doesn't have an electrics box in the side that you can remove or some other way of checking directly, it's difficult to be sure. With experience, rapping on the back with your knuckles and listening to the tone it gives can be a guide (ply is 'sharper' sounding, and solid has more of a 'thunk') but it's often difficult to be absolutely sure.

ChrisMusic

Thanks @ICBM.

Whilst I need to learn in general about all this stuff, I don't know anything like enough about acoustics, it is also about a specific guitar.

*** I should have asked in the OP ~ this guitar has a dark stripe around the sides, about 2mm wide and 1/3 from the back, does that indicate anything specific ?

The guitar is mahogany back & sides, which is a bit amorphous, so not easy to tell.  It is not helped by the inter-webz wisdom suggesting that there were both laminate and solid woods used in the early models, and apparently Gibson identifying one guitar as laminate, which turned out to be solid !

ICBM

ChrisMusic said:

*** I should have asked in the OP ~ this guitar has a dark stripe around the sides, about 2mm wide and 1/3 from the back, does that indicate anything specific ?

If the same stripe is visible in the same place on the inside as the outside, it's definitely solid.

ChrisMusic said:

It is not helped by the inter-webz wisdom suggesting that there were both laminate and solid woods used in the early models, and apparently Gibson identifying one guitar as laminate, which turned out to be solid !

What model is it?

ChrisMusic

I may not have expressed the "stripe" bit unambiguously enough, it appears to be a part of the construction rather than a figure in the wood.  Like the sides are made of a narrow and a wider section joined by the stripe, running around the guitar, if that makes any sense.  The stripe does appear on both outer and inner surfaces, as if it is contiguous.

It is a Gibson CL10 from 1997.

ICBM

ChrisMusic said:

I may not have expressed the "stripe" bit unambiguously enough, it appears to be a part of the construction rather than a figure in the wood.  Like the sides are made of a narrow and a wider section joined by the stripe, running around the guitar, if that makes any sense.  The stripe does appear on both outer and inner surfaces, as if it is contiguous.

I would be far more worried about a joint like that than about whether it was made of laminate! But it sounds very unlikely to me that even Gibson would have done such a thing, so my best guess is that it is some sort of odd figuring and it's solid wood.

If it's a CL-10 it will be an electro-acoustic I assume, so it should be possible to take out the endpin jack and have a look - I know that's a bit of a faff...

ChrisMusic

Yes ICBM, it does have an endpin jack, but it's not my guitar (yet~anyway), and I don't have access to any tools right now, and I also assume that any nut for the jack is inside the guitar, which would be an interesting fiddle  

It may be the only conclusive method to check though.  Cheers...

ICBM

ChrisMusic said:

Yes ICBM, it does have an endpin jack, but it's not my guitar (yet~anyway), and I don't have access to any tools right now, and I also assume that any nut for the jack is inside the guitar, which would be an interesting fiddle  

It may be the only conclusive method to check though.  Cheers…

I think it should have the standard Switchcraft jack, so you need to remove the round strap-button 'nut' first (should be finger-tight, or possibly so with an elastic band wrapped around it), then the actual nut underneath, which you do by putting an Allen key or something similar through the two crossways holes in the barrel to stop it turning while you undo the nut. With the nut off you can then tie some cotton through the holes, and carefully push the jack far enough into the guitar to see the wood. Then pull the cotton to get it back out, and refit the nuts using the crossbar again.

That sounds tricky but once you've seen how it's done it's not too bad. But if it's not your guitar, perhaps less easy…

Do you like the guitar, and is it a good price? If yes to both, I probably wouldn't worry *too* much about it, you can always find out later. Or is the laminate/solid question part of the price equation?

ChrisMusic

Thanks for the step by step instructions, I may just give that a try under the cover of darkness  

Perceptive as always ICBM, yes that is part of the equation, to be fair to both sides.  It has had a bit of a life, and is nice enough to have a new home here, and help a friend out who is looking to upgrade for recording.  I did put a thread up a few days ago to see if anyone had an idea of values, and any other info on the CL10, but I have since found some on the net.  As to pricing, I am much less sure how to evaluate an acoustic than an electric, so I am not too sure on that count.

ICBM

It's not a model I'm familiar with at all unfortunately, but I would be surprised if any modern "non classic model" Gibson acoustic - even with potentially laminated back/sides - is worth much less than £1000, and probably no more than £1500, in good/excellent condition - a little less if it has significant wear or minor damage. I know that's a pretty wide range! And that you probably knew that much already… but it may help.

From what it looks like, the nearest new equivalent seems to be the Songwriter range, although they don't do one with exactly the same spec. Gibsons hold their value quite well so you can probably expect 2/3 to 3/4 of the new price of the nearest model. I honestly don't know how much difference laminated back/sides would make - maybe not much, but I'm not sure.

ChrisMusic

Thanks ICBM, I appreciate your perspective, and the practical guidance.

I believe that the CL range morphed into the SongBirds and then into the SongWriters.  They were only on the market for two years in '97 & '98, so not surprising that the folks around here are not familiar with the models.

Sporky

Simplest way is to cut through it and look at the exposed grain. Might want to take a couple of swipes with a plane to clean it up.

ChrisMusic

Or a one way ticket on the 'plane to escape the owners wrath !

I hear Brazil is nice this time of year...