Old Wood

Sporky

I like how all the links are broken and his email isn't at his domain.

TTony

Sporky said:

I like how all the links are broken and his email isn't at his domain.

Those links aren't broken, they're just old links.  Old links are far better than new links that just take you to where you expect to go.

Jez6345789

I do agree that this stuff gets a bit overblown and cork sniffy at times and as for someone who winds pickups for a living schooling me on old woods my answer wood be fuck off I am asking you to wind some copper wire around a magnet get over your self. 

That said I think wood does change over the years as it dries out and crystalizes resin etc. How much difference that makes to the guitar is a very subjective business those people in the vintage market swear it makes a difference. I have a slab les paul body a friend made for me about 18 years ago. He scored a lovely board back then of 1950's honduras mahogany big enough to make one piece les pauls out of he bought it at auction from a private wood sale. its is amazing stuff resonant as hell wonderful tap tone. 

I am just waiting to find a 1950's piece of maple for the top and enough honduras to make the neck and I should be laughing :-)

The fact that people are now torrifying wood on acoustics to get improved tonal response I can imagine it will not be long before we see torrified and artificially aged wood on main stream high end electrics. 

Whitecat

Jez6345789;1020965" said:

The fact that people are now torrifying wood on acoustics to get improved tonal response I can imagine it will not be long before we see torrified and artificially aged wood on main stream high end electrics. 

Already happening - perhaps not quite so mainstream as Fender or Gibson, but Novo Guitars uses "tempered tonewoods" (which is a trade name for a process/supplier).

The whole "roasted maple" thing that Gibson played with (and Suhr and others still do) is totally in that arena too, though that was just necks and fretboards.

Sassafras

Sounds like the pickup maker's head is made of old wood.

GazLion

How about pickups? Anyone notice them getting better with age??

gordiji

Jez6345789 said:

The fact that people are now torrifying wood on acoustics to get improved tonal response I can imagine it will not be long before we see torrified and artificially aged wood on main stream high end electrics. 

I think yamaha do hasten this natural drying in their sg's.. 

p90fool

When will people realise that the the vintage guitar market has nothing to do with age and is simply about design?

When I bought my '63 Strat it was only 18 years old. It was better than new Strats at the time simply because Fender had changed the design, not because of degaussed magnets, crystallized wood sap or any other bollocks. It was the same age a '98 Strat is now.

Do NOT buy pickups off a maker who is either too ignorant, too dishonest or just too fucking thick to acknowledge this.

Winny_Pooh

How more obscure a pickup maker can you get. Is it a gear page thing that you found this guy?

HAL9000

Going slightly off topic, but still talking about how wood changes over the years, when my natural lite ash Tele was bought 11 years ago it was quite a pale colour. Over the years the wood has darkened and is now a gorgeous golden-blonde hue which looks terrific.

HAL9000

Phil_aka_Pip;1020554" said:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hr3p2D8XeVE/UR2k6DmlfZI/AAAAAAABFJw/VYqCZlJ96ds/s1600/Ronnie_Wood.jpg

He's wearing Jeff Beck's syrup again...

Neil

GazLion said:

How about pickups? Anyone notice them getting better with age??

Many people try to replicate old pickups as they all seem to be '54 this and '61 that.

By virtue of the  magnets losing strength over the years it is supposed to alter the sound.

SunDevil

This may get struck down, but the only real difference in magnet types (from the point of view of the physics that matters in turning string vibration into voltage) as I understand it, is magnet strength (a V is stronger than a III)

so the difference that natural degaussing makes should tend towards the woodier tones of the old faithful Alnico II, I guess?

The magnet type makes a difference to how much it can be magnetised and so the field strength - a IV can be as 'weak' as a II, but a II can't match a gaussed up IV

crunchman

p90fool said:

When will people realise that the the vintage guitar market has nothing to do with age and is simply about design?

When I bought my '63 Strat it was only 18 years old. It was better than new Strats at the time simply because Fender had changed the design, not because of degaussed magnets, crystallized wood sap or any other bollocks. It was the same age a '98 Strat is now.

Do NOT buy pickups off a maker who is either too ignorant, too dishonest or just too fucking thick to acknowledge this.

It's not purely design.  They do change over time.  I've noticed that with one or two of my guitars that I've had for a good while.

It's not just the magnets degaussing either.  I've read several reports of modern reproduction pickups being put in old guitars and still giving the sound of the old guitar.

Some of the early reissues and early Custom Shop stuff has 20 years of age on it now.  I wonder if this is where all the hype about Cunetto era Fender CS comes from.  Give the more recent stuff another 15 years and see.

Having said that it's also about the quality of the wood in the first place.  The old growth woods available 50 years ago are often not available now.

p90fool

Of course everything ages, but the point is a new Strat in 1977 was very different to one from 1964, and that difference was not caused by materials deteriorating over 13 years.

You can buy a new one now which is as good as a 64 - for about 15 years you couldn't.

That is the origin of the "vintage" guitar market, not the aging process.

richardhomer

p90fool;1021316" said:

When will people realise that the the vintage guitar market has nothing to do with age and is simply about design?

When I bought my '63 Strat it was only 18 years old. It was better than new Strats at the time simply because Fender had changed the design, not because of degaussed magnets, crystallized wood sap or any other bollocks. It was the same age a '98 Strat is now.

My '63 was 20 years old when I bought it. It was a stunning guitar - much better than the '65 I owned at the time.

My '94 American Standard is now 20.

Guess what? It's just a Strat that's a few years old. It's certainly not 'special' in any way.

Moe_Zambeek

the weird thing about the fetish for 50 year old guitars is that they were only maybe 10 years old when the 'classics' were recorded. Now they're a different thing again.

professorben

Whitecat;1020739" said:

My Old Growth Redwood Telecaster continually vies for the title of "most resonant guitar" I own (or have ever played.)

It's made from wood that was harvested originally in the late 19th century, and could have been from trees hundreds of years old...

Certainly not scientific proof but a good example of "old wood = better."

There are guitars out there made from bog oak and kauri, which can be thousands of years old, but it tends to be reclaimed from underground so it's not doing much curing while it sits there and waits covered in muck and soil and bog water... 

Slightly off topic but relevant nonetheless.
The drum maker DW made a series of wooden snares about 15 years ago. Made from the wood of a shipwreck, reclaimed from the deep.
It was said the pressure of the water had started to crystallise the sap. Which is a huge part of the aging process it's claimed.
Yamaha have a machine ( pressure chamber) which they use to age their Piano soundboards ( and some acoustics) I think this is the element of the aging process.

professorben

But it is interesting that the people shouting the most about 'aged=better' are those owning or selling old items.
I personally think design and build are the main influences in how an instrument performs both playing wise and tone wise.
Don't forget most of the classic recording we all live were made on guitars less than 10 years old at the time. ( gross generalisation)

ICBM

It's a bit of both I think. I've heard old guitars that sounded magical and like old guitars even with new - even completely different - pickup types in them, and I've heard new guitars that sounded great with old pickups in them… but never like old guitars, if that makes sense. More of the difference is in the wood than the pickups in my opinion.

Old pickups that have slightly weakened magnets do sound different from the same spec new pickups that don't. Pots, caps and wiring make no difference by being old, except that some cap types can drift in value and hence change their sound - but a new cap of the same drifted value will sound exactly the same.

I've also heard old guitars with old wood, old pickups and aged caps that sounded like dead cardboard, and guitars with new everything that sound great. The individual differences usually outweigh the general ones, although there are *some* general differences… if that makes sense!