Fanned fret 9 String acoustic

WezV

I have been talking about this one for quite some time, I have been slowly working away in the background and finally have some progress to show.

Don't expect perfection, I have only done a bit of acoustic stuff and am making a lot of this one up as I go along

A few key requirements I was asked for:

• 9 Strings, strung double course on the high strings
• some kind of pickup system
• Fanned fret - pushing to baritone scale length on the low strings
• Quirky shape

Its made from variegated bloodwood back and sides with  a port orford cedar top.mahogany neck with ebony fretboard.  

Scale length is 25" on the treble and 27" on the bass side, fanned out from the 12th fret to give an even fan at nut and bridge.  I was a bit torn on this because on the fanned fret electrics I have built i have fanned out from closer to the nut to make first position chords feel natural, but if I did that here the bridge would be too fanned.

The neck join is a bolt on system I have dreamt up, kinda like a low brow version of the taylor neck joint.  i routed that out today so can finally put the parts together

here you can see the neck set with quite a high angle, I have just been playing with it and can get a bridge height between 10-25mm using shims in the pocket - all feeling solid.     you can see i nicked some of the cedar along the bass side, annoying but an easy fix.  Youc an also see the access for the control panel - its not a sound port  on this... unless the electrics get junked

and a  couple of internal shots - where it all gets a  bit funky

the tailblock in not centered as the electrics have a big jack unit which I wanted to put in a similar location, so i pushed that join around to the bass side by about an inch.  that and the weird bracing make everything look very odd.

The neck block is stacked, the top layer forms the neck pocket, although you can see part of the neck peeking though so that really should have been a bit longer.  the top and bottom parts of the neck block have limbs which extend around to the cutaway to help keep that in shape. reminds me i still need to add some side reinforcement

Who knows how it will sound???  TBH i have been winging it a bit with this pattern -    but the constructions style should allow me to get a couple of strings on and have a play before I attach the back     tap tone is already quite nice, just need to be a bit more scientific before I close it up.   

GuyBoden

Fantastic, very interesting design.  =D>

WezV

Cheers

I should also mention the neck design is closer to an archtop. The neck wood carries on under the whole fretboard. There is a truss rod and dual cf rods running the whole distance too. All this, coupled with a nice deep cutaway and the ability to accurately adjust neck angle should give electric style playability all the way up the neck..... Hopefully

paulnb57

Loiks A Lordy! I never cease to be amazed at the talent on here!

Deadman

Phew. Unbelievable stuff.

Andyjr1515

Very interested in this, @WezV. Some fascinating design features on show. Love the fretboard, too

TTony

And this is exactly why we need custom builders with the imagination, skills and patience of people like Wez.

The photos almost look like paintings to me - I guess its a trick of the lighting/focus/colours, but they look unreal!

Looks incredible

WezV

Test fit time.  Still no back on the body, it's temporarily braced. So I could try a few things out before sealing it up

DartmoorHedgehog

Very nice! The fanned frets and asymmetrical body makes the perspective look really odd in the first picture

WezV

Honestly, all the angles and slightly offset shape mess with my head too so I understand if it's messing with your perception.... The perspective doesn't help

TTony

Madness.  Total madness.

And incredible.

Sporky

That's ace.

WezV

I hope it will be.

its still relatively unknown territory for me and I am purposely doing things in the wrong order to maximise the chance of it working.

the two other fanned frets were to test out different fans for the acoustic.... There is a compromise between playability and tone to think about with a fanned fret acoustic

Andyjr1515

That looks excellent @WezV ;   I'd actually forgotten about this one but very pleased it's back on the scene.

It's a very interesting idea not putting the back on yet.  Mmm....got me thinking

axisus

Looks amazing!

ToneControl

A very interesting idea, looks great

I'm a  big fan of baritones,  I've owned 4 acoustic ones, 6 electrics, and an 8 string
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on these issues:

1. What tuning  are you thinking of?  I've tuned a 29 inch baritone  in fifths which is just about possible, running from 68 to 8.   I tried E-E on the 29 inch and on a 30 inch classical, but it stopped sounding like a guitar. I think  27 inches is quite short for really low notes, I use  D1-D1 on my 27.75 inch acoustic - which sounds lovely and growly, but still guitar-ish
2. If you are going below D1, is the body volume any larger than normal? I find that  there is very little acoustic output into the room on low notes on the  baritones that go  to significantly lower notes, e.g. B1 and below  (especially when you get down around E1) (standard is   E2 A2 D3 G3 B3 E4) . 
3.  I saw  a classical contrabass  (Aria ) , run E-E with  a homemade port added to the soundhole to reinforce the bottom strings. You can buy a commercial version of these, in fact I have one here if you want it, or want a photo of it. I added a pickup to my 29 inch acoustic, it's the only way to hear the bass end properly, other than close mic'ing
4. I found that it sounds more guitar-like to use unwound strings in the  top 2 courses  - please tell me what your findings are
5. What preamp  are you using ?   I guess D-D would be fine, but A-A  might need different EQ options to normal acoustics?  I use  EMG active bass EQ   on one electric, and it has 2 options  for centring the control frequencies.  If you are going extra low,  is a  bass-oriented preamp available?

Taylor  make baritones with  just 2 strings doubled,   yours will be more flexible, since  you can un-string when needed

WezV

It's neither baritone or for alternate turnings, but can work well for both

i think many miss the point of fanned frets on standard tuning, it's not as obvious as with ERG's, but the same benefits are still there.

i will expand on this once I am at a computer and can type easier

WezV

so this is the 6th fanned fret I have built and its the first with additional strings.   I do have a few mates desperate for me to build an ERG and they got excited when i said I would be building a 9-string.  they were not expecting this


there are two important decision with a fanned fret - the outside scale lengths and which fret is going to be perpendicular to the centre line

My first fanned fret about 10 years ago was rather conservative, 25-26" scales with the 5th fret as the perp.  having the straight fret closer to the nut means less fan near the nut and a greater angle on the bridge.   Anyway, it worked really well, well enough to convince me fanned frets on 6 strings work pretty nicely.

I followed that up with  a 26.5 - 28" baritone and a 25-27.5" normal guitar - both with perps between the 3rd and 9th fret for easier first position chords.  so 3 fanned frets, all take very little adjustment to get used to because the perp is relatively close to the nut

Then i was asked about the possibility of doing an acoustic and it introduces another variable in the choice .  I was concerned because the extreme bridge angle could affect the tone of an acoustic, whereas it has no affect on the tone of an electric.   The solution is to move the perp closer to the bridge, but this then creates a more angled nut

So i built the white fanned fret and thinline to test the scales.  The perp on the white one is at the 12th fret and the nut and bridge have equal but opposite angles - not accounting for compensation.   I tried it on this style of guitars because if first position chords are affected, who really cares.    Anyway, it was good news.  playing an f takes a bit more adjustment than my previous fanned frets, but nothing worth worrying about.  and it goes from standard to drop C with a set of 10-56, obviously can go quite a bit lower with heavier strings

I also built the thinline with the same scales and the perp at the 7th fret.  you can see the bridge is really angled... probably too much for a proper acoustic.  it would start to push the high string coupling into a relatively dead area of the fretboard

anyway, all this has taught me i really like a low E on a 27" scale length... so whereas many would want to down tune this, my instinct is to go straight for standard tuning

WezV

Andyjr1515 said:

That looks excellent @WezV ;   I'd actually forgotten about this one but very pleased it's back on the scene.

It's a very interesting idea not putting the back on yet.  Mmm....got me thinking

I am not sure  its a brilliant idea really, but there was a few too many things which might not work on this so I have temporarily added a big brace (an old bed slat) between neck and heel block - its still less stable and more delicate than an enclosed box would be.

Obviously it also meant attaching the bridge earlier in the process than would normally happen

ToneControl

Sounds like a great plan for the fan frets

I agree: 27 inch would be excellent with a normal E.
I think fat strings tuned lower on normal-ish scale lengths lose  something in the tone
My  sweetspot is 30 inch for  dropped-B, 28.5 inch for dropped D
I have a 27 inch baritone tele tuned  D-D too, which is OK

Winny_Pooh

Great thread. How will the intonation be on the double courses if they are spaced slightly apart? Or will that be part of the appeal? Fascinating build and ambitious too!