Mini switch wiring - daft question

ThePrettyDamned

Just going to order some of the more basic parts of my build.  It's going to have a blend pot, volume and tone, which is a prewired loom from Shugz (which may or may not need rejigging, depending on the distance between the drilled holes in the guitar).

Anyway, I need a mini switch to coil tap the neck single coil and split the bridge bucker.  Is this the correct switch to be using?  http://www.axesrus.co.uk/6-Terminal-Mini-Switch-Double-Switch-p/gs-6term.htm

How would I go about wiring it?  I want it to split both pickups at once (sort of, vintage and modern mode, if you like).  If it's difficult, I may consider getting a push/push pot and replacing the volume pot on the loom, to keep things a little tidier.

Cheers for any advice.

ICBM

Yes, that's the right switch. Connect the middle terminal on each side to the pickup coil split wire(s), and the end terminal (the opposite end from the direction you want the toggle to point for split) to either ground or the pickup hot connection, depending on which coil you want to switch off.

ThePrettyDamned

As an addition, here is said loom (it's spaced fine I reckon).  

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3795/11528648904_12625a02cb_b.jpg

So, from this view... The one at the back with the cap is the volume, the middle is tone and the bottom one is the blend pot (which would make sense, though I normally wire the cap to the tone knob).  So with this in mind, I would like the mini switch probably next to the tone knob, or I'll change the volume knob for a push push or push pull.  

Does this seem... Er... Correct?

ThePrettyDamned

Thanks @ICBM, I'm now thinking it might be a tidier looking guitar if I swapped a pot for a push/push or push/pull.  See post above! 

If this is correct, it'll be pretty easy - not many connections to break and remake, and SD have a wiring diagram on the website for coil tap.  As I want to do both at once, I'll need to basically put both pickups to exactly the same points, then put the output to the volume pot, which then goes to the blend.  

Or would it be blend then volume?  I don't know if it really matters either way.

GuitarMonkey

ThePrettyDamned said:

So, from this view... The one at the back with the cap is the volume, 

Does this seem... Er... Correct?

Surely the one with the capacitor is the tone control?

ICBM

The one with the cap is the tone. It's better to use a tone control for a push-pull rather than a volume, since the pot quality in push-pulls is often a bit lower than normal and the taper can be a bit poor for a volume.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM said:

The one with the cap is the tone. It's better to use a tone control for a push-pull rather than a volume, since the pot quality in push-pulls is often a bit lower than normal and the taper can be a bit poor for a volume.

Lol I'm an idiot.

Okay, cool.  Hmm, food for thought.  Hopefully the loom won't need rewiring, but I'd rather have the volume at the top.  Hopefully, it'll fit fine with the loom rotated to be volume -> blend -> tone.  

Then I'll use a pot for the tapping - I think it'll be a little tidier.  So now, I need to find a source of CTS or Bourns push/push pots...

Edit: with the split wiring, http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=coil_splitting , if on a tone pot, all I'll need to do is connect the wires as shown, but send the black (which I'm presuming is the hot wire) to the... Er... Blend pot?

So the path would be pickup -> switch -> blend -> volume -> tone -> output

?

Or maybe I'll just say, bugger it, and have a hole drilled for the mini switch.  It would, at least, allow me to use the loom wired professionally! Do I want, ON ON ON, ON ON or ON OFF ON? 

Sorry for these inane questions @ICBM.  You'll learn to love me the mini switch could go next to the bottom pot (tone) or in the middle of all three.  I'll look at pics of PRS guitars to get a feel for it...

ChrisMusic

Maybe not for this build TPD, but an interesting control for future thought maybe?

The HCP Humbucker Control Pot is a dual mode coil tap selector that eliminates the additional switches associated with coil splitting a pair of humbuckers. In TAP mode, rotating the pot counterclockwise fades from HUMBUCKERS to OUTER Coils (HB1 South coil & HB2 North coil). Pulling the HCP control up and rotating it counterclockwise fades from HUMBUCKERS to INNER Coils (HB1 North coil & HB2 South coil). Tonal control is expanded with the unique ability to coil tap both humbuckers in varying amounts. In COIL FILTER mode, turning the HCP control applies varying amounts of a specially tuned high frequency filter to only one coil of the selected coils of the humbuckers (either North or South coils can be filtered). This makes each pickup a single coil at high frequencies and a humbucker at lower frequencies which produces a sound similar to a pair of single coils but with a stronger, fuller tone and 50% less noise than coil tapping. 

HCP Humbucker Control Pot Features:

Accesses North & South / Inner & Outer Coils.

Provides varying amounts of coil tapping for both pickups.

Variable "Coil Filter Modes" provide new tonal options.

Completely passive-No battery needed.

Works with any multi-wire humbuckers.

Use with a pair of humbuckers or a single humbucker.

No affect on tone at full clockwise setting.

http://www.guitarelectronics.com/c=dLgygD9hkc1Tzb3Dc7fD2EgRY/product/PMT-HCP/HCP-Humbucker-Control-Pot-w-Coil-Filters.html

Lots of diagrams on the site too, bookmark it for future reference maybe?

http://www.guitarelectronics.com/c=DOzhCs9hkc1Tzb3DhQfQWt1Yv/category/wiring_resources_guitar_wiring_diagrams/

Cheers,

Chris

ThePrettyDamned

That looks really neat - definitely worthwhile in a potential build involving a single pickup, which would get me plenty of tonal options.  Thanks!

Just need to work out what kinda of switch I'm after and order it.  I'm going to go mini switch - not least because I've never really got on with push pull pots (if I had a pound for every time I pulled the knob off...).  

ChrisMusic

Hey TPD, yes I thought it looked interesting, note that it does 2 Humbuckers with one control, just check the diagrams on the link page, click on them for full scale viewing.

Push-push seems a much better design than push-pull (like the above) as a general switch IMO, but I do like the immediacy of mini switches.

Different varieties of switch give you different options, so complexity but flexibility.

The answers are usually simple, it is defining the question that is the difficult bit.

On On with the (double pole)  6 Terminal Mini Switch - Double Switch will give the coil split or no coil split option.

I'll leave the next part in ICBM's capable hands  

ThePrettyDamned

It looks like I need an ON/OFF/On switch, with 2 isolated poles (which means 6 lugs).  Then I'll wire each pickup, one to each side.

I can't find a specific diagram on t'interwebs, they're all for individual pickups or for masses of switching options!

ChrisMusic

On On with the (double pole)  6 Terminal Mini Switch - Double Switch will give the coil split or no coil split option.

On Off On could give (say) inner coils / hum bucker / outer coils

or maybe "one pair of coils" / hum bucker / "partial split" (with a resistor to ground so that it's not fully single or humbucker but a bit of both)  -  complexity but flexibility !!!

Just depends how far you want to go...  

ThePrettyDamned

Or, if I had a seperate switch for both, I could blend a high output bridge humbucker with a vintage output neck single coil, or a single coil bridge with a high output single coil in the neck... Hmm.  

GAH so many options.  I want them all!

ThePrettyDamned

It's worth noting, it'll be a bridge bucker, but the neck is actually a single coil which will have a tap to bring it down to a more vintage output.  

So an ON ON switch will be a simple mod that'll tap both at once.  Thanks! 

@ICBM, would I run the switch to the volume pot, or the blend pot?  I'm guessing each side would have to go to the middle lugs on the blend pot, top for neck, bottom for bridge (or vice versa).

ChrisMusic

As you said TPD  "GAH so many options.  I want them all! "

Yes, that's my problem with all this, and then you need a pilot's licence to navigate the thing  

ThePrettyDamned

Woops, @ICBM, I've just had a gander at the Duncan diagram.  The pickup goes straight to the blend pot, and it's the other wires that go to the split, which essentially keeps them in the circuit, or sends them to ground.  

So basically, it's simple.  Assuming the black wire is the hot (I'll have to ask Ash at Oil City), the two black wires will go to the blend pot middle lugs.  Then the other wires follow this diragram, but one pickup on each side of an ON/ON switch:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=1hum_1vol_1tone_split

ChrisMusic

ThePrettyDamned said:  Or, if I had a seperate switch for both, I could blend a high output bridge humbucker with a vintage output neck single coil, or a single coil bridge with a high output single coil in the neck... 

Push-push on two controls would achieve that quite neatly - (then you could use the mini switch for phase or series parallel etc).

See what I mean, it is defining the question that is the tough part.  

ThePrettyDamned

I'm settled - a single mini switch to tap both pickups.  That and a blend pot gives me a vintage and a modern voicing on the guitar, and blend between the pickups.  That's enough to mess with my head for now

ICBM

On-On for a simple coil split.

On-Off-On to give the choice of inner or outer coils.

The wiring from the split switch goes to either ground or the blend pot depending on which coil you're cutting out, not the volume pot.

Pickups > split switching > blend pot > tone pot > volume pot > jack is the best way of looking at it. (The tone control is usually connected to the top terminal of the volume pot though, so it doesn't matter which the wiring goes to first.)

ThePrettyDamned

Thanks mate.

It's all ordered, just an on on for simple coil split and tap. I'm sure ash will let me know which coloured wires go to where

Andyjr1515

ThePrettyDamned said:

Or, if I had a seperate switch for both, I could blend a high output bridge humbucker with a vintage output neck single coil, or a single coil bridge with a high output single coil in the neck... Hmm.  

GAH so many options.  I want them all!

Of all the options I have regularly tried and used (my record was a strat with 125 sound options!) this above is consistently the most useful for me.  It means you can go full meaty humbucker or you can get some clarity of one tapped/single coil with the depth of the other one that is still humbucking - this gives useful cut-through-the-mix ability without going spindly.  The difference between bridge humbuck and neck single vs neck humbuck and bridge single (my most used) is also usable.

Sounds an interesting project, @ThePrettyDamned

Post pics as soon as sensible...  

Andy