help needed on walling hanging guitars.

musicman100

TTony said:

musicman100 said:

I have got 4 of them but I've never really liked them

Get to like them - they're the best.

Probably because I'm not really in to hanging guitars on the wall. Lol

celentium

I have four Hercules hangers that do the job. My DIY is terrible though so the father in law fit them.

Bridgehouse

I have 5 of the hercules ones in my *cough* office.. We have dot n dab plaster on the walls - so some longer rifled screws and some heavy duty plugs and they are screwed right through and into the block behind. Really strong.

Neil

musicman100 said:

Neil said:

OP, out of interest, how are your guitars "rotting away in their cases"?

They are old gretsches and they can been very prone to serious binding rot which seems to be made worst when the are left in thier cases. They are too valuable to just leave.

Ah right, thanks.

IvisonGuitars

musicman100 said:

Neil said:

OP, out of interest, how are your guitars "rotting away in their cases"?

They are old gretsches and they can been very prone to serious binding rot which seems to be made worst when the are left in thier cases. They are too valuable to just leave.

Ah, there's your problem then....Get them sold and get some proper Gibson's.....

ICBM

There will come a point where having them re-bound is the only option, but that affects the value if they aren't too far gone yet.

sweepy

I have all of mine hanging up on slatboard, if they are in the cases, they don't get played.

guitars4you

@musicman 100 - first of all I love how some of these blogs take a massive right hand curve, but I can see the connection with the guitars in  a case and on hangers in this instance - The bit about Gretsch Guitars is valid for me at this stage as I'm just about to acquire a C Gent circa 1865 that has had to have new binding and I've spent a short time looking at this on other sites, blogs etc and came across this - see below - sorry about the black hilights as it came that way once I cut and pasted of a Gretsch site - George Gruhn apparently agreed with these thoughts

Binding Rot according to Frank Ford, Gryphon Stringed Instruments…

Far as I know, there's no way to stop the rot. Heat speeds it up, so coolness would slow it down, of course, just like film.

Our old pal, Mario Martello, has a theory that D'Angelico, Gretsch and Guild used some of the same celluloid that Hopf and Hofner used in the 40s and 50s, so maybe it was German. Anyway, those periods are clearly the worst. For example, D'Angelicos made in the 30s tend not to have rotten binding, while lots of later ones do.

The use of too much solvent in adhering or laminating is clearly a contributing factor, so I've seen some instruments were just a section shrank catastrophically in the first couple of years, just in one spot. I had a recent adventure with an instrument I built in the early 70s. It's an F-style mandolin, and the binding rotted just like those old Gretsch guitars, but ONLY the tiny corner pieces I laminated by welding up thinner pieces with acetone. It was the same material as the rest of the binding, but it rotted completely, where the other stuff is in perfect shape. Clear evidence that too much solvent leached out important ingredients, I'd say.

Old Gibson elevated pickguards tend to rot starting right where the support block is glued on - more evidence for that same conclusion.

I never see that kind of binding rot on Martin guitars, probably because they used Ivoroid during the time when those Gretsch and Guild instruments had the chalky white stuff that evaporated, and because Martin has always been very careful with the use of solvent glues around plastic. I do see considerable binding rot on old Martins that have been refinished with nitrocellulose lacquer, indicating that the application of that extra load of solvent eventually leached out plasticizers, or whatever. So, when refinishing a vintage Martin, I think I'd generally like to replace all the celluloid to avoid that problem. That procedure takes an expensive operation and really cranks up the $$$.

Replacement is the only cure I know, and it is NASTY business. It's extremely difficult to replace binding without refinishing, so most everybody I know who does this kind of work tries not to take it on very often. Frequently it is handled as a "time-and-materials" job with no predictability of cost.

The plastic binding that doesn't rot still shrinks with time and temperature, as do other plastic parts such as tuner buttons and pickguards. This situation gives rise to a logical question: If we expect these guitars to last a lifetime and then be handed down through the generations, why are we continuing to make them with volatile components?

As the old Arkansas Traveler said, "Well, that's YOUR question, YOU answer it."

Frank

musicman100

ICBM said:

There will come a point where having them re-bound is the only option, but that affects the value if they aren't too far gone yet.

It's a very common issue. Mine haven't got that bad and i don't intend them doing so. As having them rebound is the last thing I want.

musicman100

miserneil said:

musicman100 said:

Neil said:

OP, out of interest, how are your guitars "rotting away in their cases"?

They are old gretsches and they can been very prone to serious binding rot which seems to be made worst when the are left in thier cases. They are too valuable to just leave.

Ah, there's your problem then....Get them sold and get some proper Gibson's.....

Not a massive gibson fan. Had a few and sold them all apart from my gibson country gentleman that is lovely n I'll never sell.

musicman100

sweepy said:

I have all of mine hanging up on slatboard, if they are in the cases, they don't get played.

guitars4you said:

@musicman 100 - first of all I love how some of these blogs take a massive right hand curve, but I can see the connection with the guitars in  a case and on hangers in this instance - The bit about Gretsch Guitars is valid for me at this stage as I'm just about to acquire a C Gent circa 1865 that has had to have new binding and I've spent a short time looking at this on other sites, blogs etc and came across this - see below - sorry about the black hilights as it came that way once I cut and pasted of a Gretsch site - George Gruhn apparently agreed with these thoughts

Binding Rot according to Frank Ford, Gryphon Stringed Instruments…

Far as I know, there's no way to stop the rot. Heat speeds it up, so coolness would slow it down, of course, just like film.

Our old pal, Mario Martello, has a theory that D'Angelico, Gretsch and Guild used some of the same celluloid that Hopf and Hofner used in the 40s and 50s, so maybe it was German. Anyway, those periods are clearly the worst. For example, D'Angelicos made in the 30s tend not to have rotten binding, while lots of later ones do.

The use of too much solvent in adhering or laminating is clearly a contributing factor, so I've seen some instruments were just a section shrank catastrophically in the first couple of years, just in one spot. I had a recent adventure with an instrument I built in the early 70s. It's an F-style mandolin, and the binding rotted just like those old Gretsch guitars, but ONLY the tiny corner pieces I laminated by welding up thinner pieces with acetone. It was the same material as the rest of the binding, but it rotted completely, where the other stuff is in perfect shape. Clear evidence that too much solvent leached out important ingredients, I'd say.

Old Gibson elevated pickguards tend to rot starting right where the support block is glued on - more evidence for that same conclusion.

I never see that kind of binding rot on Martin guitars, probably because they used Ivoroid during the time when those Gretsch and Guild instruments had the chalky white stuff that evaporated, and because Martin has always been very careful with the use of solvent glues around plastic. I do see considerable binding rot on old Martins that have been refinished with nitrocellulose lacquer, indicating that the application of that extra load of solvent eventually leached out plasticizers, or whatever. So, when refinishing a vintage Martin, I think I'd generally like to replace all the celluloid to avoid that problem. That procedure takes an expensive operation and really cranks up the $$$.

Replacement is the only cure I know, and it is NASTY business. It's extremely difficult to replace binding without refinishing, so most everybody I know who does this kind of work tries not to take it on very often. Frequently it is handled as a "time-and-materials" job with no predictability of cost.

The plastic binding that doesn't rot still shrinks with time and temperature, as do other plastic parts such as tuner buttons and pickguards. This situation gives rise to a logical question: If we expect these guitars to last a lifetime and then be handed down through the generations, why are we continuing to make them with volatile components?

As the old Arkansas Traveler said, "Well, that's YOUR question, YOU answer it."

Frank

Hi Mark, is it for you or the shop.

guitars4you

@musicman 100 - it will be for sale in the store - not finalised it all yet and away next week so watch this space and I can update you later if that is okay

musicman100

guitars4you said:

@musicman 100 - it will be for sale in the store - not finalised it all yet and away next week so watch this space and I can update you later if that is okay

Just make sure you don't put to much money into it tho. Regards

guitars4you

musicman100 said:

guitars4you said:

@musicman 100 - it will be for sale in the store - not finalised it all yet and away next week so watch this space and I can update you later if that is okay

I'll update you later - probably when I'm back - thanks
Just make sure you don't put to much money into it tho. Regards

TonyR

guitars4you said:

The bit about Gretsch Guitars is valid for me at this stage as I'm just about to acquire a C Gent circa 1865... 

Did they really make them back then? Wow!  

Bridgehouse

TonyR said:

guitars4you said:

The bit about Gretsch Guitars is valid for me at this stage as I'm just about to acquire a C Gent circa 1865... 

Did they really make them back then? Wow!  

No wonder the binding is rotting..!

guitars4you

TonyR said:

guitars4you said:

The bit about Gretsch Guitars is valid for me at this stage as I'm just about to acquire a C Gent circa 1865... 

Did they really make them back then? Wow!  

oooooooooops - sorry about that - 'I was just waiting to see who would spot that first' said Mr Mainwaring

musicman100

Thanks guys fir all of your input, I've just decided to rack a few of them instead of hanging them .

guitars4you

that is a nice bevy of guitars - apart from collection is there a descriptive word for a quantity of guitars - A pride of Guitars - A gaggle of guitars

However I would still have them on the wall to appreciate their full beauty

musicman100

guitars4you said:

that is a nice bevy of guitars - apart from collection is there a descriptive word for a quantity of guitars - A pride of Guitars - A gaggle of guitars

However I would still have them on the wall to appreciate their full beauty

Ha ha, thanks Mark. That's not even a third of the collection. We have far to many to have them all out at once. So will just rotate them. And keep the rest locked up. Here's a picture of not all but most of them the I took recently when the weather was good.