Pots for Les Paul?

thomasw88

going to put in a set of BK mules into my 2015 les paul standard.    I'm probably going to change the pots as well as I really have no interest in all the coil tapping bobbins etc with les pauls. 

Wondering what people are recommending for Pots these days?  CTS or Bourns or anything else?  If Bourns what is the pot of preference as I'm a bit thick!  500k all the way?

Plus am I right in thinking that the make of caps don't make a difference thats scientifically provable!!

FelineGuitars

I use and keep in stock the BKP labelled CTS ones made to 550k ohm 

This really just guarantees that you'll always get one of 500K or above which is good for keeping top end on a HB guitar.

thomasw88 said:

Plus am I right in thinking that the make of caps don't make a difference thats scientifically provable!!

Hmmm - can of worms 

Before ICBM wades in and tells you that it makes no difference - I like using the paper in oil ones and wiring them up in 50s wiring config.

I like the sweep and the interaction between the pot and cap on the tone control.

They are about the cost of a round of drinks, and I feel in a classy guitar I don't begrudge spending on them.

However I pretty much like Orange drops too (and other types) too and they will cost you less.

Not really a fan of the tiny ceramic disc ones  but they will do their job too.

thomasw88

would these pots work be of the right size/type?

http://cpc.farnell.com/bourns/95a1d-z28-ea0-303l/pot-audio-500k-plain-shaft/dp/RE04589?CMP=CPC-PLA

ICBM

FelineGuitars said:

Before ICBM wades in and tells you that it makes no difference - I like using the paper in oil ones and wiring them up in 50s wiring config.

I like the sweep and the interaction between the pot and cap on the tone control.

They are about the cost of a round of drinks, and I feel in a classy guitar I don't begrudge spending on them.

The 50s wiring definitely makes quite a big difference, and I actually agree about using 'nice' caps, even if no-one ever sees them. I draw the line at spending £10 or more on a fancy cap that doesn't actually affect the tone though...

thomasw88

ICBM said:

FelineGuitars said:

Before ICBM wades in and tells you that it makes no difference - I like using the paper in oil ones and wiring them up in 50s wiring config.

I like the sweep and the interaction between the pot and cap on the tone control.

They are about the cost of a round of drinks, and I feel in a classy guitar I don't begrudge spending on them.

The 50s wiring definitely makes quite a big difference, and I actually agree about using 'nice' caps, even if no-one ever sees them. I draw the line at spending £10 or more on a fancy cap that doesn't actually affect the tone though...

so what would you recommend cap wise -  cheap n good for me!

ICBM

Absolutely anything of the right value will sound exactly the same. The cheapest ceramics are just as good as anything else.

It is true that things like Orange Drops are slightly easier to work with because they have nice thick leads, but I don't find the thin ones a problem.

The rest is all just 'mojo', so pick ones you like the look of or which suit the age/supposed age/country of origin of the guitar.

thomasw88

orange drops are fine then!

Has anyone used the Bourns pots?   If so, I'd really appreciate which model to use for a gibson as its confusing as hell..

for example:

PDB241-GTR03-504C2

PDB181-GTR03-504C2

http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Bourns/PDB241-GTR03-504C2/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtC25l1F4XBU9%2fWokorVChw74H0F0CNKLE%3d

earwighoney

ICBM said:

FelineGuitars said:

Before ICBM wades in and tells you that it makes no difference - I like using the paper in oil ones and wiring them up in 50s wiring config.

I like the sweep and the interaction between the pot and cap on the tone control.

They are about the cost of a round of drinks, and I feel in a classy guitar I don't begrudge spending on them.

The 50s wiring definitely makes quite a big difference, and I actually agree about using 'nice' caps, even if no-one ever sees them. I draw the line at spending £10 or more on a fancy cap that doesn't actually affect the tone though...

What's the difference between 50's wiring and 'normal wiring'?  I'm going to replace the pots on my Epi LPC as they are ghastly 25k pots (shudder) and I'm confused between 50's wiring and 'normal wiring'?  

I had CTS logarithmic pots put in my last guitar which I liked a lot.  @ICBM, what would you choose between log and linear pots? 

Andyjr1515

thomasw88 said:

orange drops are fine then!

Has anyone used the Bourns pots?   If so, I'd really appreciate which model to use for a gibson as its confusing as hell..

for example:

PDB241-GTR03-504C2

PDB181-GTR03-504C2

http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Bourns/PDB241-GTR03-504C2/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtC25l1F4XBU9%2fWokorVChw74H0F0CNKLE%3d

I've fitted Bournes on special request in the past. Some folk rave over them, but I wouldn't fit them in my own guitars - to me, turning the knob seemed to have almost no physical resistance and so the chance of brushing your hand past the knob and changing the setting seemed high! I like a knob to stay where I last put it...

Ossyrocks

I have BK Mules in one of my lesters paired with BK Superpots. Sounds marvellous to me. The Mules were actually a revelation to me, I have tried loads of pickups including very price stuff from the US. The Mules are my fave. Caps, yes, can of worms, but I have Luxe Bumblebees.

thomasw88

Andyjr1515 said:

thomasw88 said:

orange drops are fine then!

Has anyone used the Bourns pots?   If so, I'd really appreciate which model to use for a gibson as its confusing as hell..

for example:

PDB241-GTR03-504C2

PDB181-GTR03-504C2

http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Bourns/PDB241-GTR03-504C2/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtC25l1F4XBU9%2fWokorVChw74H0F0CNKLE%3d

I've fitted Bournes on special request in the past. Some folk rave over them, but I wouldn't fit them in my own guitars - to me, turning the knob seemed to have almost no physical resistance and so the chance of brushing your hand past the knob and changing the setting seemed high! I like a knob to stay where I last put it...

yes that sounds like me, so what pots would you recommend? @Andyjr1515

Andyjr1515

I stick with the 'usual' option of CTS pots, @thomasw88 I'm told that some of the new CTS aren't of the same quality as the original ones (still available) but I've not had any issues with any that I've fitted, whichever version they are. When I've fitted them, I twist them back and forth a couple of times to take some of the stiffness out of the bearing and then, for me, they are just right - easy to turn but stay put where you left them!

ICBM

earwighoney said:

What's the difference between 50's wiring and 'normal wiring'?  I'm going to replace the pots on my Epi LPC as they are ghastly 25k pots (shudder) and I'm confused between 50's wiring and 'normal wiring'?

'50s' wiring has the tone controls connected to the middle (output/switch) terminal of the volume pots, 'modern' wiring has it connected to the top (pickup) terminal.

What it means is that with 50s wiring, as you turn down the volume control when the tone is all the way up, the relative value of the tone control increases so more treble is retained.

The disadvantage is that if the tone control is already down a fair way, the rate of treble roll-off *increases* as you turn the volume down, ie the controls are much more interactive. There is a point in the middle of the turn where they become very dependent on each other - some people like that and some don't.

The pots on an Epiphone won't be 25K unless it previously had EMGs in it, and if they are then it will completely kill the tone with passive pickups.

Also, make sure the pots are wired the right way round - many older Epiphones came with 'backwards' wiring with the pickup connected to the middle terminal and the switch to the top terminal - this is sometimes called 'independent' wiring because turning down one volume doesn't cut off the guitar in the middle position, but it doesn't sound good if you do turn the volume controls down because it's reducing the effective pot value.

earwighoney said:

I had CTS logarithmic pots put in my last guitar which I liked a lot.  @ICBM, what would you choose between log and linear pots? 

I prefer Log for all.

thomasw88

thanks guys.

As the Gibson is all wired on a PCB board, I'm going to rip the lot out.

So I'm thinking 4 Audio taper CTS 500k pots possibly the TVT

Hook up wire -  from looking around, there isn't much difference so maybe a trip to Maplin? Or anything recommend from online?

I;m thinking of Orange drop .022 and .015 caps with 50's wiring.

Will I need to replace the pickup selector switch or are the stock ones decent enough?

I'm not great at soldering, I have done it before and wired up a couple of strats/and teles from scratch so fairly sure I will get there in the end..  Alternatively I saw one of these which seemed quite a good price tbh and not massively expensive compared to buying all the parts.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Les-Paul-50s-Wiring-Full-Orange-Drop-Upgrade-Harness-CTS-GIBSON-LONG-SHAFT-/262441820251?hash=item3d1ac0605b:g:TgQAAOxyrrpTibcm

ICBM

You won't need to replace the switch, the original will be a Switchcraft.

Ideally you want braided cloth-insulated cable for the wiring, you can get it from Allparts etc.

earwighoney

ICBM said: 

'50s' wiring has the tone controls connected to the middle (output/switch) terminal of the volume pots, 'modern' wiring has it connected to the top (pickup) terminal.

The pots on an Epiphone won't be 25K unless it previously had EMGs in it, and if they are then it will completely kill the tone with passive pickups.

I prefer Log for all.

@ICBM, thanks again!  

I've never had a guitar with '50's wiring, but I'll give it a try, I imagine it won't be too difficult to solder into 'normal' wiring if the tonal response isn't for me.  

Yes, it did have EMG's in it and I'm going to take out the whole wiring harness and put in a new one.  As my Epi has the body routed for Alpha pots, it will need to be routed for CTS pots.  Mr ICBM, how difficult will it be to enlargen the existing routes?  I picked up a wood reamer for the task, do you have any tips for the process? 

@thomasw88

If you decide to keep the switch/jack you can get the harness from Ash @OilCityPickups without the switch/jack for a fair chunk less than with. 

http://www.oilcitypickups.co.uk/harnesses.html

ICBM

earwighoney said:

Yes, it did have EMG's in it and I'm going to take out the whole wiring harness and put in a new one.  As my Epi has the body routed for Alpha pots, it will need to be routed for CTS pots.  Mr ICBM, how difficult will it be to enlargen the existing routes?  I picked up a wood reamer for the task, do you have any tips for the process?

Just go carefully and keep checking the size often . Best to go from both sides alternately or you'll end up with a hole unnecessarily bigger on one side than the other.

It's very easy to swap from 50s to modern wiring or vice versa - it's only the tone control (cap or wire depending on where the cap is) connection on the volume control which is different - although the tone control wiring is often shown as different too, it doesn't matter so there's no need to change it.

earwighoney

ICBM said:

earwighoney said:

Yes, it did have EMG's in it and I'm going to take out the whole wiring harness and put in a new one.  As my Epi has the body routed for Alpha pots, it will need to be routed for CTS pots.  Mr ICBM, how difficult will it be to enlargen the existing routes?  I picked up a wood reamer for the task, do you have any tips for the process?

Just go carefully and keep checking the size often . Best to go from both sides alternately or you'll end up with a hole unnecessarily bigger on one side than the other.

It's very easy to swap from 50s to modern wiring or vice versa - it's only the tone control (cap or wire depending on where the cap is) connection on the volume control which is different - although the tone control wiring is often shown as different too, it doesn't matter so there's no need to change it.

Cheers Mr ICBM!  

thomasw88

earwighoney said:

@thomasw88

If you decide to keep the switch/jack you can get the harness from Ash @OilCityPickups without the switch/jack for a fair chunk less than with. 

http://www.oilcitypickups.co.uk/harnesses.html

Have ordered one of them as that seems cheaper than I can build it for!

OilCityPickups

thomasw88 said:

earwighoney said:

@thomasw88

If you decide to keep the switch/jack you can get the harness from Ash @OilCityPickups without the switch/jack for a fair chunk less than with. 

http://www.oilcitypickups.co.uk/harnesses.html

Have ordered one of them as that seems cheaper than I can build it for!

And you get PIO caps as standard :-) 

Pretty and not too expensive either .

earwighoney

ICBM said:

Just go carefully and keep checking the size often . Best to go from both sides alternately or you'll end up with a hole unnecessarily bigger on one side than the other.

A great piece of @ICBM advice, I enlarged the headstock routes for some new tuners and kept that in mind and checked at every opportunity.  Worked really well, thanks again Mr ICBM!  I feel prepared for changing the pots and electric on my LPC now!