What exactly is Jeremy Corbyn's plan?

ToneControl

axisus said:

Corbyn is going to win the leadership battle again, so the sooner the Tories call a gen election the better. Once he has failed miserably with that they can get on with finding a proper leader.

but the tories have a 4 year free lunch now, they can do anything without coherent criticism, why should they call an election?
They can't anyway can they, Corporal Clegg saw to that I think?

Philly_Q

axisus said:

Corbyn is going to win the leadership battle again, so the sooner the Tories call a gen election the better. Once he has failed miserably with that they can get on with finding a proper leader.

Of course from the Tories' point of view they're happy for him to be there as long as possible, although I guess - theoretically - they run the risk that Corbyn could become more popular with the general electorate between now and 2020. And who knows what may happen as we negotiate exit from the EU, the political climate could change greatly.

Philly_Q

ToneControl said:

They can't anyway can they, Corporal Clegg saw to that I think?

The PM could still call a general election if she had the support of two thirds of the House of Commons.  Presumably most of the Labour "rebels" would support the government to try to get rid of Corbyn, but I don't know how the SNP would vote.  Two thirds sounds quite a tall order.

ICBM

They wouldn't even get the 50% they need for a vote of no confidence let alone two-thirds. None of the other parties want an election now - none apart from the SNP are in a fit state to fight one, and the result would be a (probably hugely) increased Tory majority.

Snap

ToneControl said:

axisus said:

Corbyn is going to win the leadership battle again, so the sooner the Tories call a gen election the better. Once he has failed miserably with that they can get on with finding a proper leader.

but the tories have a 4 year free lunch now, they can do anything without coherent criticism, why should they call an election?
They can't anyway can they, Corporal Clegg saw to that I think?

They will call one to get a substantial majority so they can do what the hell they like, without alteration, which will not be good.

The Labour party will split IMO, the PLP will go off and form a new centre left party, leaving Corbyn and his Animal Farm comrades to form a hard socialist party.

the whole thing is pretty appalling isn't it?

scrumhalf

Corbyn has referred several times recently to "the Labour movement" and not "the Labour party" in circumstances where one would expect him to refer to the party.

I think that's an interesting pointer to his thoughts.

57Deluxe

I can't help thinking that JC would have not been out of place in the 60s Avengers series... as Mother

ICBM

Snap said:

ToneControl said:

axisus said:

Corbyn is going to win the leadership battle again, so the sooner the Tories call a gen election the better. Once he has failed miserably with that they can get on with finding a proper leader.

but the tories have a 4 year free lunch now, they can do anything without coherent criticism, why should they call an election?
They can't anyway can they, Corporal Clegg saw to that I think?

They will call one to get a substantial majority so they can do what the hell they like, without alteration, which will not be good.

The Labour party will split IMO, the PLP will go off and form a new centre left party, leaving Corbyn and his Animal Farm comrades to form a hard socialist party.

the whole thing is pretty appalling isn't it?

I can't believe people still are still going on about an election. It's not like in the past where a government could call a snap election to boost its majority - the Fixed Term Parliaments Act was designed precisely to prevent this kind of thing... and you do have Clegg to thank for that, it was one of the good things he did.

The only ways there will be an election before 2020 are:

If there is a vote of No Confidence in the government - which needs a simple majority to pass, but no-one is going to call one, since May won't call for a vote of No Confidence in her own government - if she lost (he only way to trigger the election), she would have to resign - and even if they did, the other parties would abstain rather than vote for it since they don't want an election.

Or if there is a vote for an early election, which needs a two-thirds majority - again, not going to happen.

Neither the Lib Dems, Labour or UKIP are in a fit state to fight an election, and although the SNP are, realistically they can only lose seats from their current position - and if they did it would be to Ruth Davidson's Tories, which they specifically don't want.

The good news, if there is any, is that this does give the opposition parties time to get their act together *knowing* they aren't going to have to fight an election for nearly four years, so they don't need a short-term solution, they need a long-term one.

ToneControl

ICBM said:

Snap said:

ToneControl said:

axisus said:

Corbyn is going to win the leadership battle again, so the sooner the Tories call a gen election the better. Once he has failed miserably with that they can get on with finding a proper leader.

but the tories have a 4 year free lunch now, they can do anything without coherent criticism, why should they call an election?
They can't anyway can they, Corporal Clegg saw to that I think?

They will call one to get a substantial majority so they can do what the hell they like, without alteration, which will not be good.

The Labour party will split IMO, the PLP will go off and form a new centre left party, leaving Corbyn and his Animal Farm comrades to form a hard socialist party.

the whole thing is pretty appalling isn't it?

I can't believe people still are still going on about an election. It's not like in the past where a government could call a snap election to boost its majority - the Fixed Term Parliaments Act was designed precisely to prevent this kind of thing... and you do have Clegg to thank for that, it was one of the good things he did.

The only ways there will be an election before 2020 are:

If there is a vote of No Confidence in the government - which needs a simple majority to pass, but no-one is going to call one, since May won't call for a vote of No Confidence in her own government - if she lost (he only way to trigger the election), she would have to resign - and even if they did, the other parties would abstain rather than vote for it since they don't want an election.

Or if there is a vote for an early election, which needs a two-thirds majority - again, not going to happen.

Neither the Lib Dems, Labour or UKIP are in a fit state to fight an election, and although the SNP are, realistically they can only lose seats from their current position - and if they did it would be to Ruth Davidson's Tories, which they specifically don't want.

The good news, if there is any, is that this does give the opposition parties time to get their act together *knowing* they aren't going to have to fight an election for nearly four years, so they don't need a short-term solution, they need a long-term one.

I agree with all that, except the use of the the term "opposition parties"
Currently we don't really have any effective opposition parties do we?

ICBM

ToneControl said:

I agree with all that, except the use of the the term "opposition parties"

Currently we don't really have any effective opposition parties do we?

No. Perhaps I should have said "enough time for a new moderate-left party to be formed and get its act together before it has to fight an election".

Although I did have the radical slightly bonkers idea that the SNP should put up candidates in every English seat - they're moderate-left/centrists anyway, and if enough English people voted for them and they won, it would guarantee Scottish independence getting rid of the whinging buggers once and for all…

Ironically, that would probably make Alex Salmond PM .

ToneControl

ICBM said:

ToneControl said:

I agree with all that, except the use of the the term "opposition parties"

Currently we don't really have any effective opposition parties do we?

No. Perhaps I should have said "enough time for a new moderate-left party to be formed and get its act together before it has to fight an election".

Although I did have the radical slightly bonkers idea that the SNP should put up candidates in every English seat - they're moderate-left/centrists anyway, and if enough English people voted for them and they won, it would guarantee Scottish independence getting rid of the whinging buggers once and for all…

Ironically, that would probably make Alex Salmond PM .

"Fan - Dabi - Dozi"

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

ToneControl said:

I agree with all that, except the use of the the term "opposition parties"

Currently we don't really have any effective opposition parties do we?

No. Perhaps I should have said "enough time for a new moderate-left party to be formed and get its act together before it has to fight an election".

Although I did have the radical slightly bonkers idea that the SNP should put up candidates in every English seat - they're moderate-left/centrists anyway, and if enough English people voted for them and they won, it would guarantee Scottish independence getting rid of the whinging buggers once and for all…

Ironically, that would probably make Alex Salmond PM .

Which almost brings us full circle to a Corbyn-like situation again:  

If I don't think about it too much, I could almost imagine voting SNP if they stood in England, not because I particularly support their policies but because they're a fairly sensible, stable party which isn't the Tories.

.... but I couldn't stand that fat, smug toad-faced git Salmond as PM. 

UnclePsychosis

It wouldn't be Salmond, he's a bit part player these days.

Obviously you're just joking, but the SNP would never go for it - their particular brand of grievance politics would struggle in England - it's hard to justify "give your country a loud voice at Westminster" when you're campaigning in the country with the loudest voice, and even worse for them if they did do well in Scotland it would weaken their Scottish position - that English and Scottish voters are different and that the Scottish electorate are essentially powerless at Westminster. Lots of English people voting the same way as the Scottish do would hurt them hard!

ICBM

UnclePsychosis said:

It wouldn't be Salmond, he's a bit part player these days.

In fact it would probably be Angus Robertson, since he's the SNP group leader at Westminster. It couldn't be Sturgeon since she's not a Westminster MP.

UnclePsychosis said:

Obviously you're just joking, but the SNP would never go for it - their particular brand of grievance politics would struggle in England - it's hard to justify "give your country a loud voice at Westminster" when you're campaigning in the country with the loudest voice, and even worse for them if they did do well in Scotland it would weaken their Scottish position - that English and Scottish voters are different and that the Scottish electorate are essentially powerless at Westminster. Lots of English people voting the same way as the Scottish do would hurt them hard!

I know - it's just a thought-experiment really . But if they did, and campaigned on a platform of three points - Scottish independence as soon as practical; good centrist governance of the UK in the mean time; and withdrawing entirely from English politics again at the next election - do you think a lot of English voters would grab the chance to (as they see it) be rid of the whinging Scots *and* get a fresh government with no awkward Scots of any party around to upset things?

It also fits neatly with my other bonkers suggestion of England and Wales declaring independence from the UK to get out of the EU - the SNP would also be in a strong position to demand the retention of the UK's EU membership for Scotland (and Northern Ireland and Gibraltar if they wanted to be part of it), since the government of the UK would be Scottish at that point...

ToneControl

ICBM said:

UnclePsychosis said:

It wouldn't be Salmond, he's a bit part player these days.

In fact it would probably be Angus Robertson, since he's the SNP group leader at Westminster. It couldn't be Sturgeon since she's not a Westminster MP.

UnclePsychosis said:

Obviously you're just joking, but the SNP would never go for it - their particular brand of grievance politics would struggle in England - it's hard to justify "give your country a loud voice at Westminster" when you're campaigning in the country with the loudest voice, and even worse for them if they did do well in Scotland it would weaken their Scottish position - that English and Scottish voters are different and that the Scottish electorate are essentially powerless at Westminster. Lots of English people voting the same way as the Scottish do would hurt them hard!

I know - it's just a thought-experiment really . But if they did, and campaigned on a platform of three points - Scottish independence as soon as practical; good centrist governance of the UK in the mean time; and withdrawing entirely from English politics again at the next election - do you think a lot of English voters would grab the chance to (as they see it) be rid of the whinging Scots *and* get a fresh government with no awkward Scots of any party around to upset things?

It also fits neatly with my other bonkers suggestion of England and Wales declaring independence from the UK to get out of the EU - the SNP would also be in a strong position to demand the retention of the UK's EU membership for Scotland (and Northern Ireland and Gibraltar if they wanted to be part of it), since the government of the UK would be Scottish at that point...

and could England and Wales  ditch the  national debt and leave it with Scotland to deal with like Salmond wanted to do to RUK?
;-)

Chalky

If it means getting rid of Brenda Sturgeon out of the bloody news, I might vote for it.

axisus

Seriously, how sh*t can the Labour Party get!?!? After the farce of new members can't vote unless they get £25 quid out, now some of those who quit their shadow cabinet jobs are going cap in hand and asking for the job back. Pathetic! At least stand by your personal principles. I honestly think I'm done with this shambolic party for good.

axisus

Chalky said:

If it means getting rid of Brenda Sturgeon out of the bloody news, I might vote for it.

You're in luck, Brenda has gone. Fortunately they still have Nicola though

Chalky

axisus said:

Chalky said:

If it means getting rid of Brenda Sturgeon out of the bloody news, I might vote for it.

You're in luck, Brenda has gone. Fortunately they still have Nicola though

As in Private Eye...

ToneControl

axisus said:

Seriously, how sh*t can the Labour Party get!?!? After the farce of new members can't vote unless they get £25 quid out, now some of those who quit their shadow cabinet jobs are going cap in hand and asking for the job back. Pathetic! At least stand by your personal principles. I honestly think I'm done with this shambolic party for good.

what's the correct insult?
untraitor?
failed quitter?