Contesting a speeding ticket

joneve

Anyone had any success with this?

Got a letter through this morning and it turns out my wife was doing 29mph on Tower Bridge Road in London last week (where she'd never driven), which turns out is a 20mph speed limit. 

Now I'm not usually one to defend my wife's driving, but she is VERY careful about her speed because of the very reason of not wanting to speed (hence her doing 29 as she'd have thought it was a 30), and I find it hard to believe that at 6pm on a saturday, when the road was probably pretty busy, that she wasn't just following the flow of traffic - so I can only assume that everyone passing through that speed camera around that time has also been issued a ticket? 

I've had a look and there are speed limit signs (although very few and far between), but didn't know if there was anything worth doing? 

She's more than happy to do the awareness course (if offered) and pay the fine as she was obviously in the wrong, but as she was driving somewhere she'd never driven (and she hates driving where she doesn't know where she's going), she'd have been very alert to her surroundings and just wanting to follow traffic, so it seems a bit shit! 

lloyd

You've zero chance of avoiding a speeding fine. The only way to get out of them as far as I'm aware is if you're unsure who was driving the car at the time. It's not a mens rea crime so doing it is enough to be guilty/culpable. Imagine how much time and money would be wasted on people trying it on....not saying you or the Mrs are but you just need to pay up, do the course if offered and chalk it down.

rlw

Caught red handed.  Should have seen the signs.  And the big cameras. Very clearly signed in fact.  Sorry.

She should do the course - and try not to fall alseep like I did.

rossyamaha

^ this. Don't waste your time. If there are signs there will be no way to get out of it. 

joneve

That's what I thought - she's annoyed at herself and more annoyed that she can no longer hold the "I've never had a speeding ticket" card over my head when arguing about who the better driver is  

So I'm thrilled personally! 

EricTheWeary

Unless it is particularly odd circumstances (ie she was nowhere near there at the time) then you've pretty much no chance.  
The speed awareness courses are quite interesting,  I really enjoyed mine. I was doing about 35 mph in what I thought was a 40mph area but having done the course realise why I was wrong. 

octatonic

London sucks to drive around now.
These 20 mph limits are purely aimed at revenue raising, particularly Tower Bridge.

I used to frequently ride about in the wee hours- no one about, under 5 degrees on a motorbike doing 20.
It is fucking insane.

Dominic

Wasting your time trying to fight Cookie cutter / Sausage Factory justice .I am sure your wife was trying to be diligent and unknowingly speeding and in areas that are unfamiliar there can sometimes be so many signs etc that when you are simply trying to be safe and find your way around it is easy for them to get lost - you just can't see the wood for the trees !
 Life has been made so complicated -long gone are the days when there was a straightforward city speed limit and parking restrictions etc and you could just get on with what you have to do..........I find that even parking a car in some areas is like a test........the signs are ambiguous ,there are exemptions,the first 30 mins is free ,no return within one hour,zone is only valid for parking vouchers with the right pre-fix code, can't pay at meter only by phone ( sometimes only if pre-registered ) , phone is low on battery/connection poor.........warden still gives ticket because their computer hasn't updated fast enough ( saw this one yesterday in Hillingdon ) Parking all day ok but not between 1pm and 2pm ( to stop commuter parking ), Sometimes its hard to understand whether the Weekend and Bank holiday restriction applies or is exempt etc ..........
 There is valid evidence that a lot of this is done on purpose .....it is called 'Confusion Marketing ' - it is done to purposely catch people out and raise revenue ...........Private Parking firms are especially fond of this.
  The sad thing about your wife's predicament is that there is no room for individual consideration - Camera says NO
In the meantime Boy racers rip around the corner of quiet estates shredding tyres and narrowly missing prams playing 'fast and furious ' but there isn't enough potential financial capture to justify the cost of Camera etc so this wilful automobile abuse goes unpunished where it really is a threat to life
  As the old Cockney saying Goes ............" there's one crosses London Bridge every day " 

Clarky

I got done in a similar way this year on my way down to the south coast
I was on a dual carriage way and thought it was a 70 limit [which it had been earlier]
I didn't see the sign saying 50 cos the trees and bushes covering the signs
drove past a police van parked on the side of the road and didn't think anything of it..
got done for 68 in a 50… 3 points and a fine
felt pretty fkn cheated by that

Myranda

If the sign showing the change to a 20 mph limit is obscured or missing you might have a chance (but councils have in the past sneakily put signs up to disprove things like this in the past). 

You'd need photographs proving it's not visible and it would also need to not be a regular route (otherwise the council could claim it was previously visible and she'd be aware of the change of speed limit). 

If it's even slightly visible... Nope pay the ticket. 

lloyd

I got my one and only speeding ticket a few weeks after passing my test, national speed limit in a country lane which then turned into a 40 (overgrown bushes partially covering the sign) police van hiding in a fucking BT office car park-which had 5 or 6 BT vans so a nice camouflage there, literally 10 metres beyond the 40mph sign. You just have to cough it up and chalk it to experience/cuntish tactics/revenue accumulation. I imagine that little area is a goldmine as unless you know the area, the chance of getting down to 40mph by the police van are slim.

Clarky

lloyd said:

I got my one and only speeding ticket a few weeks after passing my test, national speed limit in a country lane which then turned into a 40 (overgrown bushes partially covering the sign) police van hiding in a fucking BT office car park-which had 5 or 6 BT vans so a nice camouflage there, literally 10 metres beyond the 40mph sign. You just have to cough it up and chalk it to experience/cuntish tactics/revenue accumulation. I imagine that little area is a goldmine as unless you know the area, the chance of getting down to 40mph by the police van are slim.

I was told that where I got done is a regular trap by Surrey Police..
somewhere on the A24 near Horsham..
because the layout of the road and the grass verge means that you don't see the van until the very last minute
and they're just inside the zone where the speed limit changes

Sporky

I got caught speeding not long after passing my test - I genuinely didn't speed regularly, but I wasn't paying enough attention. I've been a lot more careful since, but did get stopped in Poland for doing something in a something else zone. The chap had a machinegun so I didn't argue too much, but luckily I'd split my money between pocket and wallet so got away with about a £3 fine when he wanted £300.

I still don't understand what the speed limit was meant to be - quite possibly I was just the only one who stopped 'cos I'm pretty sure I was being overtaken by everyone else at the time.

Ah well. Worse things happen.

axisus

I work with this great guy who is in his 60s and is studying legal stuff in his spare time. He contests everything, parking tickets, speeding etc and says that he gets away with it most of the time. He knows loopholes, and also how to tie things up in a legal way that councils give up on.

ICBM

Sporky said:

I got caught speeding not long after passing my test - I genuinely didn't speed regularly, but I wasn't paying enough attention. I've been a lot more careful since, but did get stopped in Poland for doing something in a something else zone. The chap had a machinegun so I didn't argue too much, but luckily I'd split my money between pocket and wallet so got away with about a £3 fine when he wanted £300.

I still don't understand what the speed limit was meant to be - quite possibly I was just the only one who stopped 'cos I'm pretty sure I was being overtaken by everyone else at the time.

Ah well. Worse things happen.

My dad got done in Malaysia a bit like that - following a lorry which was deliberately going slower and slower, then speeding up whenever there was a clear chance to overtake. Finally he got pissed off and accelerated past… only for the cop to step out from where he was hiding a bit further on and demand a "fine for overtaking in a no overtaking zone". Clearly a set-up, but luckily my dad had been warned about this sort of thing so only had a few pounds obviously on him, with the rest well-hidden.

stickyfiddle

I've only had one speeding ticket, and a minor telling off for running a red light which I genuinely didn't spot as I was too busy looking at the sign for the turning I'd just missed. 

I did once get stopped by Jordanian Police outside Umm Qais, about 10 miles from the Syrian border. Trying to explain why  a Brit was up there in a shitty rental car, on an Arabic UAE driving licence was great fun... Thankfully, I had the copy of "Rough Guide to Jordan" close at hand...!

EricTheWeary

axisus said:

I work with this great guy who is in his 60s and is studying legal stuff in his spare time. He contests everything, parking tickets, speeding etc and says that he gets away with it most of the time. He knows loopholes, and also how to tie things up in a legal way that councils give up on.

When I worked in court [QUOTE SYSTEM AGGHH] you would get the odd head master or doctor contesting speeding or going through a red light or what have you. They all seemed pleased to have had a day in court. All still lost though, having first  wasted a lot of public money. 
Parking fines are a different thing,  especially the private ones but anything actually breaking the law where there is clear evidence like a speed  camera or a breathalyser you are bang to rights. 

Paul_C

I got a ticket for 35 in a 30 by a camera I knew was there, on a road I traveled down twice a day - I was slowing down from a 40 limit (which I'd been keeping to correctly) to 30, which I ultimately reached, but I was tired and just not paying attention.

I got the opportunity to do the speed awareness course which I took, and got a £60 fine, all of which was fair enough.


Six months later someone challenged the accuracy of the camera and completely out of the blue I got a refund of my £60 and the opportunity to take the course again if I got another ticket.

Which was nice.

WezV

I don't understand those of you who seem upset to be caught just after the speed limit has changed, but it does reflect the behaviour I see on the road everyday. You are supposed to be doing 30 by the time you reach the 30 sign, not brake once you pass it.

boogieman

I'm convinced most of these things are revenue raisers and nothing else. There's a new camera coming off Chiswick roundabout going onto the North Circular Road. The limit has been 40 on that bit for as long as I can remember. Suddenly it's now 30, with a tiny 30 sign. The camera is flashing non stop, it must be raking in a fortune. 

lloyd

WezV said:

I don't understand those of you who seem upset to be caught just after the speed limit has changed, but it does reflect the behaviour I see on the road everyday. You are supposed to be doing 30 by the time you reach the 30 sign, not brake once you pass it.

I think in the main, people are bitching about concealed or less visible signage, which pisses me off no end as they're required to be visible yet many of them are not yet there is nothing you can do about it even though they're not keeping up their end of the bargain. I've no issue with speeding fines and harsh ones at that, but signs should be clearly visible as should cameras and vans-they should act as a deterrent, rather than a punitive measure, the places the police place their mobile units is a disgrace IMO, even as someone who's only been done once for it (I just don't speed at all, which is what everyone should do really).