Another glazing question

WezV

The double glazing thread has prompted me to ask for advise on this.

My house is fully double glazed in white UPVC apart from the front door.   the main windows, including a large box window on the front have been done quite well and my house maintains a quite classy appearance in keeping with the original style 


The door is part of a large door/window fixture.  Its all original, has some stained glass.  its not the fanciest, but nice all the same.  

Its also massively impractical for a modern  home - not very secure and zero insulation value... and it lets water in when the window cleaners come




So whats the options and what should they cost?  

Neighbours have gone for plain white UPC and it looks cheap and nasty.


I want some period style, to keep a similar size of glazed area...... and not to freeze in winter


 

Evilmags

security glass, double glazed and stained in a wooden door.

Nitefly

We had a new composite door in a frame slightly narrower than yours last year - including door furniture and fitting it came to £1016.  

There were lots of very nice period-style doors in the brochure, and they're often finished in a wood-grain effect (it's not going to fool anyone, but it's much nicer than plain pvc!).

We got it done by a local window/conservatory outfit.

The only drawback I can see is that we are stuck with the colour for the rest of our lives!

*edit* should have added that there were also lots of choices for obscure glass for the side panel, and options fir stained glass in the door panels.

ToneControl

composite door, painted wood effect on the outside, they look a lot better than they sound. For just a door, less than £1k. You need  full frame with windows above
No more than £2k though I think

btw you can get strained glass panels made into triple glazed units, but yours aren't fancy enough to justify the cost - we had one centrepiece sash window, full of leading and patterns, cost about £1300 I think to get it done, took ages to find someone to do it

Iamnobody

That will be letting a lot of natural light into the hallway and would be a shame to lose it.

I would replicate it in composite and UPVC - getting something bespoke made out of wood would be costly.

You can choose a glass design to suit whatever option you go with.

ICBM

I can't really help about what to replace it with since I've never done anything like that, but whatever you get needs to have three-point deadlocking to validate most house insurance policies these days - certainly that's what it says in mine - I'm pretty sure you're currently not covered, even if you're paying for it… that door has no security value at all.

The new front and back doors I had fitted recently were made from industrial fire doors with some nice oak facing added, and they have the full locking stuff. A local specialist window and door company made them up for us - they wouldn't suit you though, only about a fifth of the door area is glass, in a narrow vertical panel in the middle.

WezV

I will double check the policy, but we were honest when answering the questions about whether all doors had 3-point locking so I would hope that was factored into the quote

Iamnobody

You could also centre the door and have long narrower panels each side.

ToneControl

composite ones are the hardest to destroy, wooden ones can be easily kicked down unless you add all sort of bars and avoid  using glass much

WezV

Iamnobody said:

You could also centre the door and have long narrower panels each side.

we are considering that actually, it will mean the door opens partyly on the staircase, but there is a good amount of room around the door still

WezV

Nitefly said:

We had a new composite door in a frame slightly narrower than yours last year - including door furniture and fitting it came to £1016.  

There were lots of very nice period-style doors in the brochure, and they're often finished in a wood-grain effect (it's not going to fool anyone, but it's much nicer than plain pvc!).

We got it done by a local window/conservatory outfit.

The only drawback I can see is that we are stuck with the colour for the rest of our lives!

*edit* should have added that there were also lots of choices for obscure glass for the side panel, and options fir stained glass in the door panels.

a quick look online suggested a good few hundred pounds more - but that is not accounting for the extra size of the side and top lights which i think may push it up even more... but then finding someone local may bring it down again.   think I am looking about £1500 ish minimum.

don't mind being stuck with a colour, once they have bee around a few years people will have figured out good ways to refinish them

composite does sound like the best option to me

Sporky

Something in steel and polycarbonate. Indestructible.

Iamnobody

ToneControl said:

composite ones are the hardest to destroy, wooden ones can be easily kicked down unless you add all sort of bars and avoid  using glass much

A good wooden door with a decent five lever mortice is a pig to kick down...

I've tried when my neighbour died at home - even the police had to have a couple of goes with their kit. You know the one that flattens doors in one go on TV!

That said I would and did go for a composite door. No annual maintenance as far as paint/stain etc and no problem with expansion/contraction in extremes of weather. 

ToneControl

ToneControl

Iamnobody said:

ToneControl said:

composite ones are the hardest to destroy, wooden ones can be easily kicked down unless you add all sort of bars and avoid  using glass much

A good wooden door with a decent five lever mortice is a pig to kick down...

I had one, and the burglars kicked the door into pieces
You need a big strong door, reinforced bolts and strengtheners around the lock to be properly secure

anyway,  he wants to be warm - wooden  doors are all draughty compared to multi-point locking framed UPVC or composite doors

strtdv

For the best insulation you want both the door panes and the surrounding panes to be all triple glazed.
Composite frame, composite door, "rhino hook" locks. 
The door and frame can be wood effect, and you can get similar style glazing to what is there.

If you really wanted to keep the original glass you could get it incorporated as the centre pane of the triple glazing, but it won't be cheap.

All triple glazing and 70mm composite door in wood effect with stained glass for that sort of area you're looking at £2-2.5k from a large company, maybe a bit less from a local small business.

WezV

I'm really not bothered about saving the existing glass for the new door , it's not special enough for that. 

might be nice to sell on if the whole frame can come out it one piece, but I won't hold my breath on that or expect much if it does.

i am more likely to go for a leaded design rather than stained when we replace it. Something simple & geometric.

boogieman

ToneControl said:

composite ones are the hardest to destroy, wooden ones can be easily kicked down unless you add all sort of bars and avoid  using glass much

My old mum came home from shopping once to find her wooden front door completely smashed in half. It looked like one of those two piece stable doors afterwards, but with the bottom half lying in the hall. God knows what they'd used to bust it down. Luckily she was out and there was bugger all to steal anyway. 

I tried explaining to the insurance people that they'd need to supply a completely new front door but a repair guy turned up with a drill and a sheet of corrugated iron. He stood there for ages, scratching his head and trying to figure out what to attach it to. 

capo4th

Garador and the Horrmann doors are very good.

http://www.accessgaragedoors.com/front-doors/

hywelg

A few notes;

1. A new composite or uPVC door in a period property will ALWAYS devalue the property compared with the original timber door and surround. None of them have the right period look, ever. It's about section sizes, mouldings, glazing panel proportions, etc etc.

2. There is stained glass and there is 'stained glass'. What you have there @WezV is stick-on plastic. 

3.  Traditional stained glass never looks right when encapsulated, reflections make it look fake from the outside, though it's OK from the inside. For a front door secondary glazing is far more aesthetically acceptable if original stained glass is involved. 

4. The entrance door of a period house  is an important feature. Retain at all costs. A joiner can easily make it draught proof and a decent lock will reduce the risk of burglary enormously.  Very few burglars go through the door, most will want to break the glass and open a lock. If you are concerned about this  digital  CCTV with cloud storage of data would be a better investment. 

5.  In 20 years when we have free electricity thanks to nuclear fusion all those who spent far too much insulating (and wrecking period properties) and modernising will be kicking themselves . And you do not lose as much heat through the glass as you think. Triple glazing only has a.payoff in Scandinavian climates where the differential temperatures are much higher than ours. It's a con. Indeed most people won't get a return on standard double glazing when you factor in the unreliability of double glazed units. 

This is something very close to my heart, I live in  1906 Edwardian house and I still have all my original timber sash windows. There is just nothing around that will look as good, though I am working with a joiner to see about installing Pilkingtons Spacia glass (Google it). There are some very good looking uPVC replacement windows about but they are £1500+ each and I have 10 just on the front of the house (each Bay has 3). Problem is they look cack from the inside and I won't compromise so it's wholly jumpers in winter for us...

I make my living restoring and replicating period stained glass (www.ladybayartglass.co.uk) and we are often asked for advice about door styles for period houses. A house with a good, as in original door/entranceway, will always be a more attractive proposition to buyer than a messed about one. First impressions count. 

If @WezV you'd like to pm me for advice I'd be happy to give it. 

OK, off my hobby horse now

hywelg

Iamnobody said:

A good wooden door with a decent five lever mortice is a pig to kick down...
 

This is correct. By all means install steel. reinforced security doors if you want to look like you have some valuable shit inside. Better to install a good CCTV system that make it look like you live in a really bad neighbourhood.