Top quality Les Paul Goldtop ageing/relicing?

glt56

I'm really hoping someone can help me with this!  I have a Gibson Custom Shop '57 Les Paul Goldtop VOS which I would like to be "aged", with checking to the surface but without too much overall damage. There are some examples of the sort of effect I'm looking for here:

http://s145.photobucket.com/user/glt56/library/Reliced%20Les%20Paul%20examples

There aren't many luthiers willing, or indeed able, to take on a Les Paul project with this level of expertise and precision required, but I was wondering if anyone could suggest someone who might be up to it, I'm certainly open to suggestions?  I believe Clive Brown (in Ripon) is one of the best but I can't find any contact details anywhere.  If someone could pm me with them I'd be grateful...  thanks in advance.

WezV

Got access to a big freezer?

WezV

Or a sharp blade....

it's basically a choice between forcing the cracks to appear with temperature changes, or faking them with a sharp blade.

glt56

WezV said:

Or a sharp blade....

it's basically a choice between forcing the cracks to appear with temperature changes, or faking them with a sharp blade.

I've got no intention of having a go myself, that's why I'm looking for an expert.  Hey, Tom Murphy seems to manage OK?

WezV

Yeah, I get that but you might want to know how they intend on doing it.

it's a choice between the temperature change which can be too random, or the blade which is an art form.

Tom Murphy uses a blade and if you see them in the early stages they look terrible. you would think the only solution was a refin... But a bit more work and it starts to come together.

I have practised both, and got pretty close....but liability becomes an issue on a valuable guitar. It's a fine line (literally) between success and failure

IvisonGuitars

You'd struggle to crack the lacquer with temperature change with the stuff that Gibson use these days, it's full of retarder, hence why Tom Murphy developed the razor blade checking instead.

Also, if you want the 'greening' which is the bronze flakes in the gold reacting with sweat and oxidising, you'd need the proper stuff. I'd personally speak to @Lamf37 who might be able to help.

I do have Clive Browns contact details if you need them, he does however, have a long waiting list.

lustycourtier

Does tom Murphy even work anymore? I'm sure 'Tom Murphy' is just a different work bench brand of the custom shop 

glt56

I do have Clive Browns contact details if you need them, he does however, have a long waiting list.

I'm in no rush, so if you could pm me them I'll have a chat with him about just how feasible this is. Thanks.

SteveRobinson

miserneil said:

You'd struggle to crack the lacquer with temperature change with the stuff that Gibson use these days, it's full of retarder, hence why Tom Murphy developed the razor blade checking instead.

Gil Yaron used to freeze but switched to using a razor as the cold temperatures caused problems with the glued joints.

glt56

SteveRobinson said:

miserneil said:

You'd struggle to crack the lacquer with temperature change with the stuff that Gibson use these days, it's full of retarder, hence why Tom Murphy developed the razor blade checking instead.

Gil Yaron used to freeze but switched to using a razor as the cold temperatures caused problems with the glued joints.

Hi Steve, is this a project you could take on?

breadfan

miserneil said:

You'd struggle to crack the lacquer with temperature change with the stuff that Gibson use these days, it's full of retarder, hence why Tom Murphy developed the razor blade checking instead.

Also, if you want the 'greening' which is the bronze flakes in the gold reacting with sweat and oxidising, you'd need the proper stuff. I'd personally speak to @Lamf37 who might be able to help.

I do have Clive Browns contact details if you need them, he does however, have a long waiting list.

@miserneil So, the 'greening' won't occur on the Gibson reissues? Even if it's left to age naturally, over time?

SteveRobinson

glt56 said:

Hi Steve, is this a project you could take on?

I wouldn't sorry. I think that aging convincingly is very difficult and not something I'd be confident of doing to an acceptable (to me) standard.

koss59

breadfan said:

miserneil said:

You'd struggle to crack the lacquer with temperature change with the stuff that Gibson use these days, it's full of retarder, hence why Tom Murphy developed the razor blade checking instead.

Also, if you want the 'greening' which is the bronze flakes in the gold reacting with sweat and oxidising, you'd need the proper stuff. I'd personally speak to @Lamf37 who might be able to help.

I do have Clive Browns contact details if you need them, he does however, have a long waiting list.

@miserneil So, the 'greening' won't occur on the Gibson reissues? Even if it's left to age naturally, over time?

My 2005 R7 has greening happening wherever there is a ding. I don't think the formula has changed on the gold paint since but the colour has so you never know.

IvisonGuitars

koss59 said:

breadfan said:

miserneil said:

You'd struggle to crack the lacquer with temperature change with the stuff that Gibson use these days, it's full of retarder, hence why Tom Murphy developed the razor blade checking instead.

Also, if you want the 'greening' which is the bronze flakes in the gold reacting with sweat and oxidising, you'd need the proper stuff. I'd personally speak to @Lamf37 who might be able to help.

I do have Clive Browns contact details if you need them, he does however, have a long waiting list.

@miserneil So, the 'greening' won't occur on the Gibson reissues? Even if it's left to age naturally, over time?

My 2005 R7 has greening happening wherever there is a ding. I don't think the formula has changed on the gold paint since but the colour has so you never know.

Ah, that's interesting. I thought they were using metallic paint as apposed to the bronze flake but very happy to be proven wrong :-)

There is another guy who will do you the most convincing, expert fooling refinish but mentioning his name around here is like summoning Voldemort...! ;-)

glt56

There is another guy who will do you the most convincing, expert fooling refinish but mentioning his name around here is like summoning Voldemort...! ;-)

Expeliamus me a pm then!?? Pleeeeeezzzeeee!

glt56

SteveRobinson said:

glt56 said:

Hi Steve, is this a project you could take on?

I wouldn't sorry. I think that aging convincingly is very difficult and not something I'd be confident of doing to an acceptable (to me) standard.

Thanks for your refreshing honesty Steve, much better than saying "oh yes, no problem" just to end up with something that looks more like a Les Appalling!!
Cheers matey 

Brize

Buying a distressed guitar is one thing; taking a perfectly good guitar and spending money to distress it is something else. Just play the damn thing.

mart

Brize said:

Buying a distressed guitar is one thing; taking a perfectly good guitar and spending money to distress it is something else. Just play the damn thing.

Do you find the whole idea distressing?

Skipped

I feel certain that someone will come up with a combination of temperature and chemicals that will create checking and ageing (on a Gold Top) that is good enough to fool the brain into seeing an old guitar. But in my opinion - not yet. Close but no cigar. Until then....you just have to play it every day for 40 years. Like Snowy White did.

http://snowywhitefanclub.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_172_4_dae724c4b0.jpg

glt56

Brize said:

Buying a distressed guitar is one thing; taking a perfectly good guitar and spending money to distress it is something else. Just play the damn thing.

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here?  Are you saying it's ok to buy a new "reliced" guitar, but unreasonable to buy a new "mint" guitar and then have it reliced?  One reason for doing it my way is that a standard guitar is often considerably cheaper than a reliced one... I mean, how much extra do you pay for a Tom Murphy?  Another reason is that you can specify exactly what level of relicing you want and do something about it during the process.  Oh, and what makes you think I don't play the damn thing?  What is the point of having to wait another 30 or 40 years before getting the feel and appearance that you really wanted all those years ago?  I'll be sodding dead by then!  This is a Fender Eric Johnson Strat I bought from Germany a while ago... it looks and feels fantastic to play and blows the arse off my other "normal" Eric Johnson and also my two Fender CS '56 Strat relics.  This was a stock sunburst Fender Eric Johnson Strat that was transformed after "relicing". OK... rant over

Brize

Yep, transformed all right - with a completely unrealistic wear pattern that's incommensurate with a bound board. You've no idea how the distressing will work out and whether you'll like the final result.