Top quality Les Paul Goldtop ageing/relicing?

glt56

I have had guitarists with years of experience examine and more importantly play my EJ Strat and without exception, they think it's awesome. You are right though, I don't know how it will work out, but at least I can watch the process evolve and have some control, and after all, it is my money and my guitar.  You do what you want with your guitar and I promise not to criticise any unrealistic wear pattern you may have on whatever piece of crap you play, 'nuff said mate.

glt56

Now this is an unrealistic wear pattern...

produced by the master....

Brize

glt56 said:

 I promise not to criticise any unrealistic wear pattern you may have on whatever piece of crap you play

Only Murphy-aged stuff here fella - no belt sanders for me.

Brize

glt56 said:

Now this is an unrealistic wear pattern...

produced by the master....

I believe it was produced by sitting in a rainy ditch for a few days after the guitar was stolen.

Danielsguitars

I think alot of ageing doesn't look that realistic to me, their are very few guitars that are well battered.

I started to get some laquer checking last winter by leaving it in a shed at night then bringing it indoors to warm up slowly, It's less forceful and takes alot more time 

DrBob

miserneil said:

You'd struggle to crack the lacquer with temperature change with the stuff that Gibson use these days, it's full of retarder, hence why Tom Murphy developed the razor blade checking instead.

Also, if you want the 'greening' which is the bronze flakes in the gold reacting with sweat and oxidising, you'd need the proper stuff. I'd personally speak to @Lamf37 who might be able to help.

I do have Clive Browns contact details if you need them, he does however, have a long waiting list.

@lamf68 is the refinish/relic guru. I say that @lamf37 might do it too but I know for a fact that Rich does it !

lamf68

DrBob said:

miserneil said:

You'd struggle to crack the lacquer with temperature change with the stuff that Gibson use these days, it's full of retarder, hence why Tom Murphy developed the razor blade checking instead.

Also, if you want the 'greening' which is the bronze flakes in the gold reacting with sweat and oxidising, you'd need the proper stuff. I'd personally speak to @Lamf37 who might be able to help.

I do have Clive Browns contact details if you need them, he does however, have a long waiting list.

@lamf68 is the refinish/relic guru. I say that @lamf37 might do it too but I know for a fact that Rich does it !

I have done a few Gold finishes and made them turn green, I'd be reluctant to say a regular Gibson finish would go the same way as totally refinishing it in Crescent Bronze powder then setting about it with "Greening" it up, as I've never tried on a Gibson Gold finish...after several attempts I found it hard at the start to get lacquer to turn green, the only way i found to do it was after checking the guitar or creating a ding mark,thus exposing the basecoat of bronze powder, was putting a wash of vinegar solution mixed with iron oxide crystals, sounds way fucked up and massively risky, but when i was doing it it was on my own guitar and knew if it went to shit i could refinish it regardless. I've no way of saying and no way of knowing if it'll work using a blade, i dont see why not, but the only way is to expose the basecoat to the elements, I've never seen a guitar painted Gold/Copper or silver go green without the top clearcoats being removed to some degree. You've got to expose the basecoat!

Danielsguitars

I thought the green was caused by the laquer either wearing and as said exposing the bronze or checking or a combination mixed with sweat/play wear.

lamf68 do you do checking with a freezer, its something I need to do on a couple of replicas, the laquer still needs to harden up.

glt56

lamf68 said:

I have done a few Gold finishes and made them turn green, I'd be reluctant to say a regular Gibson finish would go the same way as totally refinishing it in Crescent Bronze powder then setting about it with "Greening" it up, as I've never tried on a Gibson Gold finish...after several attempts I found it hard at the start to get lacquer to turn green, the only way i found to do it was after checking the guitar or creating a ding mark,thus exposing the basecoat of bronze powder, was putting a wash of vinegar solution mixed with iron oxide crystals, sounds way fucked up and massively risky, but when i was doing it it was on my own guitar and knew if it went to shit i could refinish it regardless. I've no way of saying and no way of knowing if it'll work using a blade, i dont see why not, but the only way is to expose the basecoat to the elements, I've never seen a guitar painted Gold/Copper or silver go green without the top clearcoats being removed to some degree. You've got to expose the basecoat!

From your experience, do you think this project is feasible, and of course with limited risk, or should I just give in and p/x it on a pre-aged one?  I have to say that the last option doesn't sit well with me as I'd rather, a) be involved in the project from beginning to end, and b) pay someone I know and trust to do the work over here rather than just buy another production line model. 

Is ageing one of these beasts that much more difficult than a Strat or Tele?  I know there must be the talent over here somewhere to rival Tom Murphy and the Gibson Custom Shop?  Come on, show us what you can do!

lamf68

customkits said:

I thought the green was caused by the laquer either wearing and as said exposing the bronze or checking or a combination mixed with sweat/play wear.

lamf68 do you do checking with a freezer, its something I need to do on a couple of replicas, the laquer still needs to harden up.

Yeah it is caused by the top clear coats wearing, that's what I said mate.. It'll also form in the cracks, check lines, due to the powder below becoming exposed.... The old powders mixed into lacquer don't mix in, they suspend in it, when you spray them they rise to the surface or the lacquer sinks below it, depending on your definition. . . . It's a hard medium to use, you have to spray it and literally go nowhere near it until it's dried enough to seal over the top of it or you'll damage the  miniscule flakes of bronze, copper, gold, silver..if you touch it or breathe too close to it it'll show after the clear goes on. 
I've tried deep freezing, freeze sprays, razors.. Best method has always been starting the stuff off with spray then into the chest freezer. Out for some heat then back in again. . I've never had any negative experience doing it this way. 

lamf68

glt56 said:

lamf68 said:

I have done a few Gold finishes and made them turn green, I'd be reluctant to say a regular Gibson finish would go the same way as totally refinishing it in Crescent Bronze powder then setting about it with "Greening" it up, as I've never tried on a Gibson Gold finish...after several attempts I found it hard at the start to get lacquer to turn green, the only way i found to do it was after checking the guitar or creating a ding mark,thus exposing the basecoat of bronze powder, was putting a wash of vinegar solution mixed with iron oxide crystals, sounds way fucked up and massively risky, but when i was doing it it was on my own guitar and knew if it went to shit i could refinish it regardless. I've no way of saying and no way of knowing if it'll work using a blade, i dont see why not, but the only way is to expose the basecoat to the elements, I've never seen a guitar painted Gold/Copper or silver go green without the top clearcoats being removed to some degree. You've got to expose the basecoat!

From your experience, do you think this project is feasible, and of course with limited risk, or should I just give in and p/x it on a pre-aged one?  I have to say that the last option doesn't sit well with me as I'd rather, a) be involved in the project from beginning to end, and b) pay someone I know and trust to do the work over here rather than just buy another production line model. 

Is ageing one of these beasts that much more difficult than a Strat or Tele? 




It's totally doable mate, it depends on your expectations though, checking can be so random with freezing and razors so aggressive an approach, with razors it's a case of hours and hours of raking the lines in, adding little ding marks to create them weird circle check marks, then painting on the solution to turn the cracks green,while it all sounds a tad Blasé it's not, it's a nerve wracking