"Selfies" - WTF is wrong with people ??

hugbot

Emp_Fab said:

Not at all mate.  I didn't read any posts that explained well enough for me to understand the mindset.  It's nothing at all to do with me deliberately "ignoring posts that don't agree with me".  I don't clamour peer approval or seek validation through others, which, thinking about it, probably partly explains my difficulty in understanding the selfie mentality.  'Low self worth' ?  Come on now...   it's me you're talking about right ?! 

Why are you telling us that then?

i mean that's the thing, if you decide that taking photos of yourself is narcissistic, and Posting to social media making the assumption that people care what you're doing is narcissistic, then what about making the assumption that everyone else cares about your opinion?

I mean what's the difference between "look, here's me", "look here's what I'm doing" and "look, here's my views on kids today and how everyone (except me) is narcissistic"? It's all just variations of talking about yourself in a roundabout way.

chrispy108

Emp_Fab said:

I don't clamour peer approval or seek validation through others, 

Ha!

The way you use this forum is far more narrasistic than someone taking a few selfies.

Every thread you start might as well say "I'm right about this aren't i?" You then thank anyone who agrees and ignore or shout down anyone who disagrees.

Look in the mirror.

Sporky

Emp_Fab said:

octatonic said:

People care about their image because they are the most important thing in their life and...

I believe you've just confirmed my fears.  If this is true, then it's a sad indictment on the youth of today that they consider the most important thing in their lives to be themselves. 

I'm the most important thing in my life - it's almost axiomatic. If I was dead then I wouldn't have a life. That's not narcissistic.

merlin

Fretwired said:

You can imagine a nuclear war with all these idiots getting selfies with a mushroom cloud behind them ...

I don't know about that but I'm going to take a selfie with my Thorpy Muffroom Cloud at my feet....

Personally, I like privacy and don't ever selfie (verb; to selfie) but my mrs loves doing it. And the other one is everyone taking photos of their food....  Society has become self-obsessed and ever more about consuming than ever before. 

CabbageCat

Emp_Fab said:

Not at all mate.  I didn't read any posts that explained well enough for me to understand the mindset. 

I'm going out on a limb here...

That's because you don't want to understand the mindset. In fact, you specifically want to not understand the mindset.

There have been plenty of posts in this thread explaining why selfies have worth but the only person whose opinion you consider to be worthy is the person who has the same opinion as you (or at least the opinion that I have inferred to be yours...assuming you are still clinging onto an official stance of neutrality).

Emp_Fab

CabbageCat said:

Emp_Fab said:

Not at all mate.  I didn't read any posts that explained well enough for me to understand the mindset. 

I'm going out on a limb here...

That's because you don't want to understand the mindset. In fact, you specifically want to not understand the mindset.

There have been plenty of posts in this thread explaining why selfies have worth but the only person whose opinion you consider to be worthy is the person who has the same opinion as you (or at least the opinion that I have inferred to be yours...assuming you are still clinging onto an official stance of neutrality).

No, I genuinely want to understand why people are recently feeling the need to do this.  The theories put forward so far don't explain in enough detail for me to get on board with the logic.  It's nothing more complex than that.  Telling me it's because "people want to feel good about themselves" isn't any sort of explanation.  I'm trying to understand what it is about this desire to have your own face in an image that facilitates this feelgood factor, if, indeed, this is the logic behind it.

I come from an older generation where self-aggrandisement is considered to be rather vulgar, yet the younger generation seem to be, not just in the concept of selfies, but in multiple facets of life, all about image - usually without substance.  The pursuit of fame for fame's sake, the clamour to be visible, the vacuous demand for 'respect' with nothing to warrant it.  I truly want to understand the thought processes behind this kind of behaviour.  I want an understanding so I'm not left thinking the younger generation are just a bunch of narcissistic dickheads - because without a proper understanding, that's all I have to default to - and I don't want to feel that way about younger people - I'd much rather try to get inside their heads and see it with their eyes than view the world like Abe Simpson.

lloyd

Plenty of people have put in fairly balanced and logical arguments, you're just ignoring them because they don't go along with your viewpoint, to disagree is fine, but to say what you have is disingenuous.

WezV

Why did artists always feel the need to do self portraits?  

CabbageCat

Emp_Fab said:

CabbageCat said:

Emp_Fab said:

Not at all mate.  I didn't read any posts that explained well enough for me to understand the mindset. 

I'm going out on a limb here...

That's because you don't want to understand the mindset. In fact, you specifically want to not understand the mindset.

There have been plenty of posts in this thread explaining why selfies have worth but the only person whose opinion you consider to be worthy is the person who has the same opinion as you (or at least the opinion that I have inferred to be yours...assuming you are still clinging onto an official stance of neutrality).

No, I genuinely want to understand why people are recently feeling the need to do this.  The theories put forward so far don't explain in enough detail for me to get on board with the logic.  It's nothing more complex than that.  Telling me it's because "people want to feel good about themselves" isn't any sort of explanation.  I'm trying to understand what it is about this desire to have your own face in an image that facilitates this feelgood factor, if, indeed, this is the logic behind it.

I come from an older generation where self-aggrandisement is considered to be rather vulgar, yet the younger generation seem to be, not just in the concept of selfies, but in multiple facets of life, all about image - usually without substance.  The pursuit of fame for fame's sake, the clamour to be visible, the vacuous demand for 'respect' with nothing to warrant it.  I truly want to understand the thought processes behind this kind of behaviour.  I want an understanding so I'm not left thinking the younger generation are just a bunch of narcissistic dickheads - because without a proper understanding, that's all I have to default to - and I don't want to feel that way about younger people - I'd much rather try to get inside their heads and see it with their eyes than view the world like Abe Simpson.

What about the explanations where it makes a picture more unique and personal? Plenty of selfies never get posted up for the world to see. They are just mementos. The person in the picture is the equivalent of writing on the back saying "Eiffel Tower 1988". It's a unique visual proof that they were somewhere or with someone that they consider special.

That is not the only reason. That is a reason. I'm sure there are several others (including narcissism, low self worth and social conformity), just as there are several reasons for deliberately disliking selfies (such as fear of change, misanthropy and self righteousness).

If you can't (or won't) understand it then I feel a bit of pity (or contempt) for you. It's not very difficult and most people here seem to have managed it OK. I understand your position (whoops...I meant the position I have incorrectly inferred that you are taking) but I don't share it.

Snap

I think there are differences between being obsessed by taking selfies and being obsessed with social media, though of course the two are linked. Generally, as a society, I think we are overly obsessed with both, but I do think its an evolving thing that will likely settle down eventually. At the moment, social media is a rapid explosion that has huge attraction to huge amounts of people.

However, I do think that it plays to people's insecurities and also that it isn't necessarily a good medium to get obsessed by. I do also think that certian people, maybe large chunks of society are TOO obsessed by it, to the point that it is detracting to physical interactions and social skills. THere is an emerging culture of avoidance of real world interaction, very much so. It hinders business and social relationships, Lots of issues and disagreements could be dissolved or avoided if so many of the conversations we have, were made in person, rather than via social media, where everything is magnified, pored over and often totally misread. You only have to see the debate teenagers will have about what a message in snapchat means - well just fecking well ring them up and find out!!

As for selfies, as per OP:

I was doing some sightseeing somewhere, and was on a tram, going up a steep hill. It was very scenic. Opposite was a woman, maybe early 30s, with her two young kids and the grandmother. Nice family outing. Lots of people taking shots, good view and that. The mother, starts preeing her hair and then takes a load of selfies, posing, and posts them up wherever. Then after making sure she is plastered all over FB or whatever, she eventually gets round to taking some photos of her family.

What struck me about the situation is that the thing that was most prominent in her mind was to take shots of herself and get them up on social media, and THEN think about getting some shots of her kids. As a parent, that seems all arse over tit and is symptomatic of the whole self promotion obsession we are living in. Sad.

CabbageCat

WezV said:

Why did artists always feel the need to do self portraits?  

Facescroll, innit.

Sporky

Emp_Fab said:

I want an understanding so I'm not left thinking the younger generation are just a bunch of narcissistic dickheads - because without a proper understanding, that's all I have to default to

Erm... your default position is that the younger generation are a bunch of narcissistic dickheads?

That seems just a little bit judgemental and uncharitable, and I think it may be colouring your stance on this, because any argument against is challenging your default position.

octatonic

Sporky said:

Emp_Fab said:

octatonic said:

People care about their image because they are the most important thing in their life and...

I believe you've just confirmed my fears.  If this is true, then it's a sad indictment on the youth of today that they consider the most important thing in their lives to be themselves. 

I'm the most important thing in my life - it's almost axiomatic. If I was dead then I wouldn't have a life. That's not narcissistic.

Persactly.

The older generation has always looked at the 'youth of today' as a threat- I think because it reminds them of their own mortality.
But it isn't the entire 'older generation', it just seems to be a particularly type or section of that generation.
I tend to think it is the bitterest of people from that generation- the ones who think maybe they have wasted their life, or haven't taken advantage of their opportunities or even those with garden-variety depression who use the younger generation as a whipping boy for their own frustrations.
It could be selfies, or gaming, or TV- essentially anything relatively new that is somehow seen as 'unhealthy'.
This of course presumes that the recreational pursuits that the previous generation engaged was healthy.
But that generation's pursuits were the complaint of the previous generation.
And so it goes.

One of my fun facts is that in the late 1700's the older generation of that age used to bemoan the youth of that time sitting around READING NOVELS!
The very thought of it, eh?

I wonder how long it will be before millennial sit around on Snapchat or WhatsApp complaining about the next generation's habits.
Will they wondering why they don't just trawl youtube instead of wasting all their time in virtual reality suites?

Emp_Fab

Jesus...  talk about passive aggressive !

By all means, psychoanalyse me to satisfy your own preconceptions as to who I am and what my real motives are - knock yourselves out - it's of no significance to me at all.  I know why I'm asking.  The bottom line is that nobody has provided an explanation that makes sense to me.  Whether the explanations thus far have made perfect sense to others here is irrelevant.  I posed the question, I'm still unable to grasp the thought processes behind the behaviour.  It's not enough for me to be told "it's because they want to make it more personal" - what does that mean ?  I need to break it down so I can try to get into the head of a selfie taker.  The way my mind works is that in order to truly understand a mindset, I have to be able to be able to think like them - or at least get part of the way.  So far, on this subject, such enlightenment has eluded me.

I'm trying to place myself in the position of someone contemplating a selfie - to be able to see the thoughts, at a granular level, that leads someone to think that the photo will be enhanced by them being in it (if that's even a reason for some, I don't know).
I don't personally know anyone who takes selfies (to my knowledge).  If I did, I would ask them "Why is it important for you to be in so many of your photos ?".  "Who is your intended audience and do you think they would prefer you to be in all the photos ?".  "Do you have an audience at all, and if not, and the photos are just for your own consumption, then why do you want to see your own face so much, when the reason you are taking the photo is because of what's in the background ?".

It's nothing to do with me ignoring answers I don't like - it's simply that the answers given so far have not provided any help with the detailed understanding I seek.

lloyd

Emp_Fab said:

Jesus...  talk about passive aggressive !

By all means, psychoanalyse me to satisfy your own preconceptions as to who I am and what my real motives are - knock yourselves out - it's of no significance to me at all.  I know why I'm asking.  The bottom line is that nobody has provided an explanation that makes sense to me.  Whether the explanations thus far have made perfect sense to others here is irrelevant.  I posed the question, I'm still unable to grasp the thought processes behind the behaviour.  It's not enough for me to be told "it's because they want to make it more personal" - what does that mean ?  I need to break it down so I can try to get into the head of a selfie taker.  The way my mind works is that in order to truly understand a mindset, I have to be able to be able to think like them - or at least get part of the way.  So far, on this subject, such enlightenment has eluded me.

I'm trying to place myself in the position of someone contemplating a selfie - to be able to see the thoughts, at a granular level, that leads someone to think that the photo will be enhanced by them being in it (if that's even a reason for some, I don't know).
I don't personally know anyone who takes selfies (to my knowledge).  If I did, I would ask them "Why is it important for you to be in so many of your photos ?".  "Who is your intended audience and do you think they would prefer you to be in all the photos ?".  "Do you have an audience at all, and if not, and the photos are just for your own consumption, then why do you want to see your own face so much, when the reason you are taking the photo is because of what's in the background ?".

It's nothing to do with me ignoring answers I don't like - it's simply that the answers given so far have not provided any help with the detailed understanding I seek.

If out of all the viewpoints given, you still don't have any idea about why people would do it, I suggest you just forget about it and not let it affect your life.

I'd question your comprehension skills and empathy too.

How about one example of why some  people take them-because they're vain wankers.

There's no catch all explanation-I've given my reasoning for doing them, there's one above and other people have given a few others.

Not that hard to be fair, I think you just don't want to understand.

lloyd

Emp_Fab said:

I don't personally know anyone who takes selfies (to my knowledge).  If I did, I would ask them

1) "Why is it important for you to be in so many of your photos ?".  
2)"Who is your intended audience and do you think they would prefer you to be in all the photos ?".  
3) "Do you have an audience at all, and if not, and the photos are just for your own consumption, then why do you want to see your own face so much, when the reason you are taking the photo is because of what's in the background ?".

Here, I'll break my answers down (despite having already answered them earlier in the thread, I think Holn has too but you've ignored mine and his explanations):

1) It's not that important, but I do want to be in some of them, mainly I'd say for the people seeing them, detailed below, but for me, I suppose a little vanity and the knowledge that I'll be able to look back at the time and place and see myself in the environment I was in at the time, sometimes I'll take selfies with other people, it's a a record of a moment in time, so yes it's important to be in the photo too.
2) Intended audience is friends and family, I think they would prefer, when looking at photo's of me, to have me in them too, the majority of holiday photo's for example, will be of the places, but I'll be in some of them. I prefer to see my friends in their photo's rather than just landscapes. Looking down the line, any of my future offspring and nieces and nephews will probably enjoy looking at photos of me in them rather than just a picture of a shoreline, I know I'd like to see a photo of my ancestors doing stuff, rather than places they'd been.
3) Same as above, I've never taken a selfie strictly for myself, apart from if there's no mirror and want to see what my hair looks like etc. I've taken selfies with my dog, that I suppose are for myself, but eventually they'll be seen by others.

You'll have to ask everyone else on the planet who takes them to get a more thorough understanding.

CabbageCat

Emp_Fab said:

Jesus...  talk about passive aggressive !

It wasn't all that passive.

Emp_Fab said:

"Who is your intended audience and do you think they would prefer you to be in all the photos ?".

How about, "It's for my Facebook friends and they might not believe that I was with Hill-Dawg if they didn't see me in the picture."

Does that make any sense at all? Can anyone confirm that I did actually write that?

Please note that this does not cover all possible instances of selfie-taking.

Drew_TNBD

CabbageCat said:

Can anyone confirm that I did actually write that?

I can confirm that you saying that has just blown my mind!

octatonic

Emp_Fab said:

Jesus...  talk about passive aggressive !

By all means, psychoanalyse me to satisfy your own preconceptions as to who I am and what my real motives are - knock yourselves out - it's of no significance to me at all.  I know why I'm asking.  The bottom line is that nobody has provided an explanation that makes sense to me.  Whether the explanations thus far have made perfect sense to others here is irrelevant.  I posed the question, I'm still unable to grasp the thought processes behind the behaviour.  It's not enough for me to be told "it's because they want to make it more personal" - what does that mean ?  I need to break it down so I can try to get into the head of a selfie taker.  The way my mind works is that in order to truly understand a mindset, I have to be able to be able to think like them - or at least get part of the way.  So far, on this subject, such enlightenment has eluded me.

I'm trying to place myself in the position of someone contemplating a selfie - to be able to see the thoughts, at a granular level, that leads someone to think that the photo will be enhanced by them being in it (if that's even a reason for some, I don't know).
I don't personally know anyone who takes selfies (to my knowledge).  If I did, I would ask them "Why is it important for you to be in so many of your photos ?".  "Who is your intended audience and do you think they would prefer you to be in all the photos ?".  "Do you have an audience at all, and if not, and the photos are just for your own consumption, then why do you want to see your own face so much, when the reason you are taking the photo is because of what's in the background ?".

It's nothing to do with me ignoring answers I don't like - it's simply that the answers given so far have not provided any help with the detailed understanding I seek.

"Judgmental man doesn't like being judged shocker."

holnrew

WezV said:

Why did artists always feel the need to do self portraits?  

Self absorbed twat