Amber Rudd and lists of foreigners

Snap

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

It's also about positioning. The Telegraph is embarrassingly pro-Brexit so the Times take the alternative view and the Sun will be pro Brexit as statistically more of its readers voted to leave.

Murdoch would be happy to see May binned and replaced with another version of Blair/Cameron.

The Telegraph is now. Certainly it was hedging it before the referendum, as Private Eye regularly picked up on before eventually coming out. The Times is positioned for the London 'Cameron liberal Conservative', the ST has a different readership and goes for the May side of things. 

It's interesting that the word 'statist' is being launched at May. We've just had a referendum where the idea was to take power back from Europe, a new Prime Minister comes in, says she will start that process next year whilst wanting to use some of that state power at home... and a load of people are now getting annoyed at this. Whatever happened to taking back control? She's in control, wants to use it, and the plebs are grumbling  

It is quite remarkable to survey politics now. The Tories keeping a lid on the pressure cooker behind the scenes, Labour trying to make it work after more leadership hoopla, the Libs deader than Bodecia, UKIP demonstrating what most people knew (namely that they were united by one single policy and sod all else) and the real possibility of Kassam coming in and turning them into Trump lite... 

Truly a horrible image above. Whatever one's political persuasion, it's a dreadful scene. 

good summation, and yes I agree. Currently politics is on its arse.

Diane Abbott as Shadow Home sec though, that's a good laugh. IN fact, Napoleon's whole shadow cabinet is funny. I think he is steadily revealing himself as a very nasty piece of work, Corbyn. A nasty arrogant stubborn deluded get. They should just break the party up and get on with it, as they are shackled to the Momentum brigade in their current setup.

Moe_Zambeek

Snap said:

I may be over egging it, but the whole listing quota of foreign workers employed has overtones of national socialism as far as I am concerned.

No doubt it was a bit of Tory spin, float the idea out to see what public reaction is, then retract or champion it accordingly. So, it was never proposed policy, merely an idea.

A bad one, a clumsy attempt to capture the perceived mentality of the (again) perceived working class voter.

Polling suggests the idea was actually pretty popular with the masses, according to yougov, and across party lines too:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/10/06/public-backs-plans-make-companies-say-how-many-for/

May's government's stance on many things is actually quite close to public opinion, though possibly not the public opinion expressed online. That's the same kind of thinking that ended with Brexit.

ICBM

Moe_Zambeek said:

May's government's stance on many things is actually quite close to public opinion, though possibly not the public opinion expressed online. That's the same kind of thinking that ended with Brexit.

But she seems to be pulling off the trick of appearing to instinctively reflect what a lot of people think before they think it and/or may even be unwilling to say, rather than appearing to react to opinion polling and trivia on social media as Cameron did - and which May explicitly criticised him for. That's a more subtle and more potentially dangerous type of populism.

That said, I still haven't seen any credible evidence that this proposal is to *list* foreign workers, rather than the numbers of them. Even so it's not a good direction to be going in.

fretmeister

Moe_Zambeek

ICBM said:

Moe_Zambeek said:

May's government's stance on many things is actually quite close to public opinion, though possibly not the public opinion expressed online. That's the same kind of thinking that ended with Brexit.

But she seems to be pulling off the trick of appearing to instinctively reflect what a lot of people think before they think it and/or may even be unwilling to say, rather than appearing to react to opinion polling and trivia on social media as Cameron did - and which May explicitly criticised him for. That's a more subtle and more potentially dangerous type of populism.

Possibly. Though I think politicians taking social media with any seriousness is a disaster, it's far too much of an echo chamber and ends up increasing the sense of disconnect many ordinary people had. The old 'Westminster bubble' was bad enough without adding another form of groupthink.

I do think there is a danger of swinging too far back the other way, and to avoid that politicians and policy makers need to find a sensible and effective way of engaging with the voting populace again. Social media watching is very definitely not the right way to go. I suggest they venture out of London occasionally and start meeting some normal folks. If they can find any

Jalapeno

Cack handed delivery for sure, but if there is to be managed immigration, this is the outcome - every overseas visa application will need to demonstrate why a UK national can't do the job - that is what the US and Aus policy is (and used to be for Switzerland before they joined the single market).

I don't personally have an issue with EU migration, and as long as it isn't open-door for working visas (as it was, especially under Blair), worldwide migration.

Fretwired

Jalapeno said:

Cack handed delivery for sure, but if there is to be managed immigration, this is the outcome - every overseas visa application will need to demonstrate why a UK national can't do the job - that is what the US and Aus policy is (and used to be for Switzerland before they joined the single market).

I don't personally have an issue with EU migration, and as long as it isn't open-door for working visas (as it was, especially under Blair), worldwide migration.

The Swiss held a referendum and the government is bound to effectively end free movement - they want to control the number of migrants. The EU has said there will be no access to the single market without free movement and has refused to negociate. They told the Swiss government to hold the vote again and get the right result.

Hollande has said that he will ensure that the UK faces the maximum economic and financial pain for wanting to leave the EU. So it seems all the EU offers are threats and blackmail. And people actually want to be a member of this club. Wait until they have an army.

First stop Britain ... :-)

And the system Rudd proposes is in place in many other countries around the world including the USA. It's still a daft idea though and at least May has said it won't be implemented.

AS I have stated before I can't see migration falling - it wasn't a big issue for me in the referendum. May should call Hollande's bluff and U-turn on migration. I bet he comes up with another reason to kick us in the teeth. The real problem is we dared to hold a referendum on membership of the EU.