New PRS Baritone

olafgarten

prsguitars.com/tremonti_baritone/

It's only a 25.5 inch scale, so not really baritone. 

guitarfishbay

Holy crap a .068 on 25.5" for a C# is massive. I'm using a .064 for a B. Quite cool though, I like the idea of a 25.5" single cut

olafgarten

If 25 inch is standard, and 25.5 is Baritone, does that mean 24.5 is a Tenor? 

guitarfishbay

It's 'baritone' relative to a regular single cutaway scale, but yeah it's not what would conventionally be called baritone scale.  It should sound pretty good on paper I think, not convinced on the string gauge though.  I think they've just stuck a standard baritone set on it rather than put any more thought into it.  You really don't need a .014 for a high C#, an 0.011 or 0.012 is totally fine IMHO

olafgarten

guitarfishbay said:

It's 'baritone' relative to a regular single cutaway scale, but yeah it's not what would conventionally be called baritone scale.  It should sound pretty good on paper I think, not convinced on the string gauge though.  I think they've just stuck a standard baritone set on it rather than put any more thought into it.  You really don't need a .014 for a high C#, an 0.011 or 0.012 is totally fine IMHO

I have a friend with a 25.5 Ibanez, he tunes that to Drop A# with 12's and there is still enough tension.

WezV

olafgarten said:

guitarfishbay said:

It's 'baritone' relative to a regular single cutaway scale, but yeah it's not what would conventionally be called baritone scale.  It should sound pretty good on paper I think, not convinced on the string gauge though.  I think they've just stuck a standard baritone set on it rather than put any more thought into it.  You really don't need a .014 for a high C#, an 0.011 or 0.012 is totally fine IMHO

I have a friend with a 25.5 Ibanez, he tunes that to Drop A# with 12's and there is still enough tension.

Enough tension for tone like a wet fart?  

i know drop C or below on a normal guitar works fine for some music, enough of my mates seem to manage it.... but i hate it almost as much as a 5-string bass.

fanned frets and longer scale lengths give so much more.

for me Baritones start from 27",  and basses start from 30", but only start working well at 33".... the dreaded 5th string needs 35"+

guitarfishbay

I think there's a thickness of string that starts to sound too dull relative to other strings (on guitar that's .066 for my tastes, and 0.125 on bass, again IMO) but you don't need super long scale to get a good sound.  

12s in A# would be too floppy on the low strings for my tastes, I'd want to use a .066 for starters on that low string and even that might be a bit floppy at 25.5"

I like this site for working out string gauges http://stringtensionpro.com/

WezV

I think I just like the extra length for the sustain and clarity it brings.... piano like tone comes from thinking like a piano.  A longer bass string works better than a short one.  Compare on overstrung piano to a vertically strung one and you will hear the difference immediately.

olafgarten

guitarfishbay said:

I think there's a thickness of string that starts to sound too dull relative to other strings (on guitar that's .066 for my tastes, and 0.125 on bass, again IMO) but you don't need super long scale to get a good sound.  

12s in A# would be too floppy on the low strings for my tastes, I'd want to use a .066 for starters on that low string and even that might be a bit floppy at 25.5"

I like this site for working out string gauges http://stringtensionpro.com/

I think he uses a thicker top aswell, he buys the Daddario 12-60. They still all have between 6 and 8kg of tension.

guitarfishbay

WezV said:

I think I just like the extra length for the sustain and clarity it brings.... piano like tone comes from thinking like a piano.  A longer bass string works better than a short one.  Compare on overstrung piano to a vertically strung one and you will hear the difference immediately.

I've not found I've needed additional sustain from any guitar I've owned ever, but I do accept you get greater clarity with longer scale.

Honestly, I don't always want that to an extent.  I think there's such a thing as too much clarity - I don't want chords to sound Djenty and super clear.  I like the raw sounding roar of a standard scale (as in up to 25.5") guitar played low rather than the tight sounding clank of a longer scale one, if that makes sense.  

prh777

I have 10-52 on a 25.5 for c standard and drop a#. I think the periphery guys run 11-56

they are recommending heavy strings but the spec otherwise I think is great. 25.5 Single cut with prs playability is fantastic. If they did a silver burst it would all be over

olafgarten

prh777 said:

I have 10-52 on a 25.5 for c standard and drop a#. I think the periphery guys run 11-56

they are recommending heavy strings but the spec otherwise I think is great. 25.5 Single cut with prs playability is fantastic. If they did a silver burst it would all be over

C Standard on 10's?

WezV

guitarfishbay said:

WezV said:

I think I just like the extra length for the sustain and clarity it brings.... piano like tone comes from thinking like a piano.  A longer bass string works better than a short one.  Compare on overstrung piano to a vertically strung one and you will hear the difference immediately.

I've not found I've needed additional sustain from any guitar I've owned ever, but I do accept you get greater clarity with longer scale.

Honestly, I don't always want that to an extent.  I think there's such a thing as too much clarity - I don't want chords to sound Djenty and super clear.  I like the raw sounding roar of a standard scale (as in up to 25.5") guitar played low rather than the tight sounding clank of a longer scale one, if that makes sense.  

I don't just mean length of note when I talk about sustain.  

Other than that, I think we are saying roughly the same thing from opposite viewpoints.


for me the guitar is a series of compromises made to make a single scale length work.  It works, but the compromises become much more obvious as you push it to the extremes.

prh777

olafgarten said:

prh777 said:

I have 10-52 on a 25.5 for c standard and drop a#. I think the periphery guys run 11-56

they are recommending heavy strings but the spec otherwise I think is great. 25.5 Single cut with prs playability is fantastic. If they did a silver burst it would all be over

C Standard on 10's?

Yup. Have also run 11-56 and 12-60. 12-60 just sounds like rubber bands unless the strings are very fresh (to my ears). 11-56 probably best compromise but again string freshness seems key as the lower strongs lose attack quickly for downturns metal. 

ennspek

guitarfishbay said:

It's 'baritone' relative to a regular single cutaway scale, but yeah it's not what would conventionally be called baritone scale.  It should sound pretty good on paper I think, not convinced on the string gauge though.  I think they've just stuck a standard baritone set on it rather than put any more thought into it.  You really don't need a .014 for a high C#, an 0.011 or 0.012 is totally fine IMHO

Say what you like about PRS and Paul Reed Smith but the one thing I don't think he can be accused of is not putting thought into a guitar. I don't think he does much else.

WezV

ennspek said:

guitarfishbay said:

It's 'baritone' relative to a regular single cutaway scale, but yeah it's not what would conventionally be called baritone scale.  It should sound pretty good on paper I think, not convinced on the string gauge though.  I think they've just stuck a standard baritone set on it rather than put any more thought into it.  You really don't need a .014 for a high C#, an 0.011 or 0.012 is totally fine IMHO

Say what you like about PRS and Paul Reed Smith but the one thing I don't think he can be accused of is not putting thought into a guitar. I don't think he does much else.

That's why I am surprised he went for a short scale baritone.

guitarfishbay

WezV said:

ennspek said:

guitarfishbay said:

It's 'baritone' relative to a regular single cutaway scale, but yeah it's not what would conventionally be called baritone scale.  It should sound pretty good on paper I think, not convinced on the string gauge though.  I think they've just stuck a standard baritone set on it rather than put any more thought into it.  You really don't need a .014 for a high C#, an 0.011 or 0.012 is totally fine IMHO

Say what you like about PRS and Paul Reed Smith but the one thing I don't think he can be accused of is not putting thought into a guitar. I don't think he does much else.

That's why I am surprised he went for a short scale baritone.

I think it should be called the Tremonti long scale, but we're probably splitting hairs.

FWIW I'm a big PRS fan and would probably like this guitar if I could afford it, so I'm not criticising Paul or Mark. At the end of the day the name is just a marketing thing.

Sporky

guitarfishbay said:

At the end of the day the name is just a marketing thing.

And that is an excellent demonstration of why marketing sucks. It's a standard guitar scale, not a baritone.