Fender Princeton 68 Custom..?

Rooster2710

Guys.....

has anyone tried / owns one of these...?

 

http://www.fender.com/en-GB/series/vintage-modified/68-custom-princeton-reverb-120v/

 

released last year... the videos / reviews are giving me a fair bit of GAS....!

I really don't need one... but since when did that ever matter...!!

ANy thoughts / experience..?

As soon as they mentioned Bassman tones at reduced volume I was hooked..!!

 

ICBM

Rooster2710 said:

As soon as they mentioned Bassman tones at reduced volume I was hooked..!! 

As soon as they mentioned Bassman tones at reduced volume they just proved they don't know what they're talking about.

You can't make a Blackface/Silverface-type circuit sound like a Bassman, unless you mean a AA864/AB165/Bassman 50-type Bassman which is not what most people think of when they say Bassman in a guitar context… ie a Tweed 5F6-A. They're just too different. 

If that sounds too geeky and they're still both Bassmans, think of it like this: a Tweed Bassman is essentially a Marshall - Marshall directly copied the Bassman, using a different output transformer. Slightly different sound, but clearly the same family. A Blackface/Silverface Bassman is essentially a half-power Twin Reverb - the Normal channel on both is nearly identical. Again, slightly different sound but clearly the same family. Twins don't sound like Marshalls…

The Princeton is a smaller version of the basically the same circuit as in a Twin.

Sorry to be a geek, and the amp may indeed sound fantastic, but it *will not* sound like a Bassman at reduced volume.

koneguitarist

I know the Bassman and Marshall  are based on same circuitry etc, but side by side, they sound nothing alike what so ever.

I love the Princeton, one of the greatest amps ever, in my opinion of course.

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

I know the Bassman and Marshall  are based on same circuitry etc, but side by side, they sound nothing alike what so ever.

They do if you put them both through the same speakers - that's by far the biggest difference between them. The OT ratio (and hence NFB ratio) is the only other difference - it certainly does make a difference, but you can hear that the circuit is the same family - and totally different from a later head-type Bassman.

koneguitarist said:

I love the Princeton, one of the greatest amps ever, in my opinion of course.

Certainly, but it sounds nothing like a Bassman. (Not even really like a BF/SF one.)

I just wish companies would stop marketing small amps with this sort of BS that they sound "just like a mini Plexi" or "just like a mini Bassman" or whatever. They don't - they sound like great *small* amps, which is not the same thing at all.

koneguitarist

Tried one through a Marshall cab once, still didn't think it was same sound or tone, both great amps, but thought Marshall was much harder sounding. Maybe an original bassman which I have never tried sounds more like one.

Agreed Princeton does not sound like any Bassman whatsoever ever !

Rooster2710

Thanks for wisdom & comments...
Anyone tried the exact model...?

The demos sound pretty damn good on line... The earlier breakup of the SF vs the BF is swaying me...

Babones

The '68 Deluxe & Twin Reverb have a modified Bassman circuit on the custom channel. The Princeton does not.

EricTheWeary

Babones;132885" said:

The '68 Deluxe & Twin Reverb have a modified Bassman circuit on the custom channel. The Princeton does not.

I can't see where Fender say anything about Bassman tones on the Princeton anyway.

:bz

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

Tried one through a Marshall cab once, still didn't think it was same sound or tone, both great amps, but thought Marshall was much harder sounding.

Yes, I hear that - that's from the much greater NFB of the Marshall.

(Philosophical wandering coming up… )

I think in a lot of these things I suffer a bit from "expert syndrome", if you see what I mean - I hear these two circuits as very similar-sounding because I *know* they are technically, and that may make me focus on the similarities (which are definitely audible) more than someone who doesn't and tends to hear the differences in the overall response (which are also definitely audible) more.

EricTheWeary said:

Babones;132885" said:

The '68 Deluxe & Twin Reverb have a modified Bassman circuit on the custom channel. The Princeton does not.

I can't see where Fender say anything about Bassman tones on the Princeton anyway.

You're right, although I thought they did somewhere too. To be fair, they don't even claim the Deluxe and Twin *sound* like a Bassman, just that they use a modified Bassman tone stack. Which doesn't mean that they sound alike even if that's true…

I did watch the demo on the Fender website of the band using them all though, and they sound dreadful. I've seen another demo of the Princeton which sounded OK though.

p90fool

Give me a week or so and I'll probably buy one and let you know what it sounds like.

martinw

koneguitarist said:

I know the Bassman and Marshall  are based on same circuitry etc, but side by side, they sound nothing alike what so ever.

You don't say which Marshall you compared it to.

koneguitarist

An old JTM 45 that a mate had owned (originally his dads.) But I have also compared the Reissue of each, and both times tried different cabs on each to hear the amps in different ways.

To me the Marshall was always brighter and harder, with a higher upper mid, the Bassman reissue that I tried, and indeed owned, was thicker with a different slightly lower mid range which I preferred. 

Would love to have an original of each and record both to put record straight, 

But we all know the Marshall was based on the Bassman, but apparently the bassman that Ken Bran and Marshall had was supposed to be a slightly different model anyway, plus Fender were probably copying the old RCA circuits.

martinw

koneguitarist said:

Would love to have an original of each and record both to put record straight, 

But we all know the Marshall was based on the Bassman, but apparently the bassman that Ken Bran and Marshall had was supposed to be a slightly different model anyway, plus Fender were probably copying the old RCA circuits.

It's not based on the Bassman, it is a Bassman, to all intents, so it can't have been a slightly different model. I don't think Fender went in for 'slightly different models' anyway, it's either a 5F6-A circuit or it isn't. And it is!

I don't know what you mean by Fender copying RCA circuits. This was true to some extent in the earlier amps, but by the 5F6-A I think they were beyond that. Not really relevant anyway

As ICBM has pointed out, the differences in sound from one to the other are accountable for by the known differences in parts selection etc. You can make one sound like the other quite easily, and they're pretty close to start with.

martinw

ICBM said:

I think in a lot of these things I suffer a bit from "expert syndrome", if you see what I mean - I hear these two circuits as very similar-sounding because I *know* they are technically, and that may make me focus on the similarities (which are definitely audible) more than someone who doesn't and tends to hear the differences in the overall response (which are also definitely audible) more.

I think you do yourself a disservice. You hear them to be very similar-sounding because they flat out are.

Rooster2710

All good stuff... however... had a bassman and found it unsuitable due to the obscene amount of volume from it...!!!

anyways.... anyone with opinons on Fender Princeton's..??

ICBM

Yes, I really like them.

jpfamps

Would love to have an original of each and record both to put record straight, 

But we all know the Marshall was based on the Bassman, but apparently the bassman that Ken Bran and Marshall had was supposed to be a slightly different model anyway, plus Fender were probably copying the old RCA circuits.

The idea that Fender simply copied RCA or Western Electric circuits is in my view false; however this myth is propagated widely eg by Kevin O'Connor, who seems pathologically in capable of giving credit to any amp manufacturer outside of Canada!

All the major valve manufacturers published "open-source" circuits to encourage the use of their valves in consumer electronics. 

I have no doubt that circuit elements from these application notes were used by Fender in their amps (just as they were by all other manufacturers), however if you look at the development of Fender amps through the 50s and 60s there is simply far too much variation in them to claim they would have been developed from a few circuits.

We should of course bear in mind that there wasn't really much of a "guitar amp" market in the early 50s and the Western Electric/ RCA application notes are more geared towards audio amplifiers and radio.

Regarding the Bassman, there where quite a number of developments in the circuit before Fender arrived at the 5F6-A, including the introduction of the classic TMB tone stack, which as far as I am aware was invented by Fender and now used in an overwhelming majority of guitar amps.

koneguitarist

Rooster2710 said:

All good stuff... however... had a bassman and found it unsuitable due to the obscene amount of volume from it...!!!

anyways.... anyone with opinons on Fender Princeton's..??

=D>  I have had a couple of SF princetons, and wish I still had them. I would like to try the 68 when I can.

To ICBM, JPF.MJW, I know the JTM45 is based on the Marshall, but Listening to them they sound pretty different to me, not just the cab and speakers. But the way they behave when you start to wind them up, the differences Ken Bran made was not all by accident. whether it was the Aluminium V Steel chassis, the feed back circuit, valves whatever, I will leave that up to the experts like yourselves. I just try and play em !

p90fool

Got one today, bear with....

Rooster2710

ooohhh..!! interesting..!!

still gassing for one... potentially trying one (in a shop) tomorrow....

would be very interested to know your thoughts....

p90fool

Can't talk yet, my neighbours are away and I have a new amp!

Seriously, I'll do a detailed report tomorrow, but it really is fabulous, it does everything I'd hoped it would and more.
Until then, if there's anything specific you want to know put it on this thread and I'll address it later