Both me humbuckers died a death!

skunkwerx

Hi all! First post here, been 'lurking' for a bit though.


Ok, so heres the rub, lets see what y'all make of it!


Some 10 years ago (or thereabouts) I bough an Esp Ltd KH-202 (China made version), online from a well known UK shop.
At the time I hadn't a clue about guitars and I noticed the bridge humbucker was tilted among a few other odd things for a brand new guitar to have. What I mean by a tilted pickup is, imagine a humbucker as it should be, level. Now Imagine the edge of the humbucker parallel to the bridge/saddle is higher, so closer to the strings at that side than at its other side. 

I did some googling to see if anyone else had similar issues and also to find out what pickups were in it, and I couldn't find a picture of a KH-202 that had the same pickups as I did. I believed the ones the guitar came with were OEM stock. They weren't anything special, but they were labelled 'ESP EMG'. Almost all other kh-202s I could find had pickups labelled either 'EMG' 'EMG HZ' or just 'ESP'. Either way they were passive pickups, fully sealed/covered.

Strange. Anyway believe it or not I dismissed this for years and years as the guitar mainly collected dust while I played other 'slightly better' guitars! Until last year. I got it out and played on it for the best part of the year until one day the pickups just sounded odd.

I can't describe it, but it was like they were in the room next door. Suddenly on my dirty high gain channel on the amp, I had way less volume, and way less distortion. It was akin to having the volume pot rolled way off.

They flickered between this and normal for a bit until I took it to my local tech at the time. I had some el cheapo esp lh-150 passive pickups that had just came out of another esp ltd guitar which I decided to give to the tech and ask him to diagnose the pickup issue, and if he couldn't fix it then to whack the lh-150 set in for the meantime.

He couldn't find any reason they would have both died, though he said the bridge pickup was tilted because the neck pups wire was ran underneath it in an odd fashion... He couldn't open the pickups to investigate them further as they were sealed all round and we decided to cut losses and just have the lh-150 set chucked in.
He also found the wiring in the guitar to be odd. I can't remember exactly what he said but he said it was wired in a very strange way, or incorrectly and so I merely said dude, do what you gotta do! I don't believe he would have had me on if it wasn't necessary.

So a rewire or partial rewire and a new used set of pickups go in and all seems great.

Any thoughts? What the heck could have caused 2 pickups to just die simultaneously?!

I actually became a little worried thinking about it, wondering what might have happened, you know, paranoia about what if the guitar had a wiring fault and the pickups got fried by some kind of electric having travelled into the guitar that could do me damage as well!

So I took it to a wicked tech in the Hackney area today (I can recommend Leon of Grizzly) and he opened her up and had a nosey and said it all looked fine. It certainly makes no humming or buzzing when plugged into an amp.

So I guess based on that the guitar is safe to use anyway, with normal looking wiring! (I've been reading stories of people being shocked by their guitars and became paranoid) haha. 
Just makes the mystery of pickup failure even weirder.

The guitar was kept in my room, on its rack for all these years, not exposed to anything as far as I know!

Anyway cheers for reading!

Maynehead

Hi, I had the exact same guitar a few years ago which I bought new from Denmark St, and they also had the ESP EMG pickups. They are ESP LH-300s which have a higher output than the LH-150s. They are also different to the EMG HZs which are made by EMG, not ESP, and have a brighter tone. The "tilting" issue is very common across most guitars and is not a problem, and will not affect tone unless its severe.

As you rightly thought, it is very unlikely for both pickups to die. It is far more likely that you had a bad solder contact somewhere between the pots, a bad switch, or a bad jack, which was sorted out during the installation of the new pickups. This means that your pickups are probably perfectly fine. BTW, it is not possible for pickups to be damaged by voltage travelling through the guitar. The voltages are minuscule, unless something is seriously wrong with your amp.

Instead of putting the old ones back in though, I suggest you use the opportunity to upgrade them to proper active EMGs (81/81 combo is one that Kirk uses). That's what I did and they sound much better through a decent amp. However through a cheap practice amp you will struggle to notice the difference.

skunkwerx

Cheers man! Appreciate the info! 

Ah alas the emg esp pickups were binned, but nevermind, least the guitar is all in working order until I can upgrade the pups to something better than the lh-500's.

Yeah thats what I've been reading, faulty amps cause those kinda fatal electrocution problems. 

Think my amps fine and dandy as I've been playing a few of my other guitars through it for years with no problems. 

I won't mention what amp it is... but I reckon you could guess if I told you its probably the most hated solid state in the world!! Its next on the 'upgrade' list haha. 

ESBlonde

Hello and welcome. 
As @Maynehead said it's unlikely both PUs died, the coming and going of bright signal suggests a bad connection common to both pickups like the jack. Did your guitar tech 'bin'your old EMG's?  If you are concerned about electrical shock on your guitars buy and use a RCD plug or adaptor (residual current device). You can get they from a DIY store or online for less than £10. The risk is very small anyway but the RCD  is so cheap it makes sense especially when you take your rig out of your house.

skunkwerx

Cheers bud! No i had the original pickups here for a while, with the intention of researching how to test them, but during a recent clear out I chucked them, figured I wouldnt bother! Damn. My last hope of answers! Haha

Hmm, does sound increasingly like there was something amiss with the wiring. Luckily the spare pickups that was put in the guitar didnt cost me anything! 

I'll check the RCD out, thanks! Not hugely concerned about shocks, especially now the guitars wirings been sorted and my amps a modern safe thingy, but yeah when out and about can never be too safe! 

olafgarten

Regarding the dangerous electricity issues,  if you really want to be safe,  I think if you put a 500v .001 uF capacitor in parallel with a 220k resistor in between the bridge and and the ground on the jack it should protect you. This allows enough power through to give you a warning,  but stops anything dangerous. 

Or use a Wireless System. 

ICBM

ESBlonde said:

Hello and welcome. 
As @Maynehead said it's unlikely both PUs died, the coming and going of bright signal suggests a bad connection common to both pickups like the jack. Did your guitar tech 'bin'your old EMG's?  If you are concerned about electrical shock on your guitars buy and use a RCD plug or adaptor (residual current device). You can get they from a DIY store or online for less than £10. The risk is very small anyway but the RCD  is so cheap it makes sense especially when you take your rig out of your house.

It is possible both pickups died - although it would usually indicate a damp environment or something like that. I've come across a couple of cases in the past, but I'm pretty sure all were damp-related in some way.

An RCD is a good thing, but don't treat it as a guarantee of safety - although it will protect you from a fault in your own amp, it will do nothing about the most serious risk of all which is that your own amp is working perfectly and earthed properly, and you touch something *else* which is live - eg a mic, connected to a PA system on a different mains circuit - making your guitar the best path to earth, via you. The RCD doesn't disconnect the earth so it doesn't protect you.

olafgarten said:

Regarding the dangerous electricity issues,  if you really want to be safe,  I think if you put a 500v .001 uF capacitor in parallel with a 220k resistor in between the bridge and and the ground on the jack it should protect you. This allows enough power through to give you a warning,  but stops anything dangerous.

You don't need the resistor - a simple 250VAC/400VDC (or higher) .01uF (or higher) cap is the best, preferably a 'Class Y' (mains-rated, guaranteed fail to open circuit) type. Even then you could still potentially get a shock from something like a metal pickup cover or control plate.

olafgarten said:

Or use a Wireless System. 

Which is the best.

To be honest, it's far less of a risk nowadays than it used to be because electrical safety regulations for buildings are far tighter than they were, but if you're genuinely worried when you're playing somewhere with unknown wiring standards, then use a wireless.