Ear plugs and clean channel volume problems

Jetfire

So, Im using ACS set of moulded ear plugs which are great for the distorted stuff etc but when I switch to the clean channel, it just disappears due to the ear plugs. The "volume" drop is really noticable. I am using the 20db ones rather than the 15's or 12's so I wonder maybe time to change for 15s or 12s? Anyone else having this problem?

capo4th

What ? Say again mate?

pmg

I use 27 ones and have no issue with cleans, it's still nice and clear

Roland

How different is the volume between your clean and distorted sound, and do you like distortion bright or fat? It might be that your distorted sound is much higher volume so that it doesn't get lost in the band mix. My crunch is about 5dB louder than clean, and overdrive is another 5dB on top of that. (One of the advantages of a modeller is that I can dial the volume in). In isolation the distorted channel sounds much too loud, but as soon as the rest of the band kicks in all three channels sound about the same level.

Jetfire

My levels are all ok without the ear plugs so Im not sure if it's just a frequency thing or not... hmm... 

octatonic

Roland said:

How different is the volume between your clean and distorted sound, and do you like distortion bright or fat? It might be that your distorted sound is much higher volume so that it doesn't get lost in the band mix. My crunch is about 5dB louder than clean, and overdrive is another 5dB on top of that. (One of the advantages of a modeller is that I can dial the volume in). In isolation the distorted channel sounds much too loud, but as soon as the rest of the band kicks in all three channels sound about the same level.

5db, really?
10db is pretty close to double the perceived volume so the difference between your clean and overdrive is going to be enormous.

vasselmeyer

I'm pretty sure It's a frequency thing. I also use 26/27 in my ACS plugs. I set my levels at sound check and I have a clean, breakup and crunch for rhythm sounds. Without plugs they're fine but they do seem unbalanced with the plugs in. They're supposed to be completely flat attenuation but they're not quite there. I wouldn't play without them though.

octatonic

I have a set of ACS plugs that I use on the motorbike.
I had to step down a level of attenuation, because they were blocking too much out and I felt like I was underwater.
ACS have been extremely good about doing this- they replaced the filters for no charge and said I could do it again if need be.

Regarding your problem, it sounds like it is attenuating frequencies that are present in the clean sound that aren't in the drive sound.

Give them a call and see if you can swap filters.

olafgarten

Out of all the ACS plugs the 17s have the flattest response. I think the 20s attenuate alot of treble and not much bass. 

See here https://www.acscustom.com/uk/images/gallery/pro-series/PRO-SERIES-DATA-CHART.pdf

capo4th

I use ACS17s and they are perfect.

SNAKEBITE

Can I be so rude as to ask why you are wearing the ear protectors?

Is it because you want to prevent damage or is it because your ears are already damamged and you want to prevent further damage?

The reason I ask is because I have suffered a little hearing loss, mainly due to working in a machine shop and a few too many loud gigs as a youngster!

As such I seem to have "dog hearing", I can hear high pitched and low pitched but the middle area is a little funky now.

In short could the issue be with your ears and not the plugs?

Jetfire

Hmmm, I wear them as protection rather than damage already done I'd say. 

stickyfiddle

I've never had trouble, but mine are 17s - chosen specifically because of the flat EQ response.

Exorcist

How do you find the 27's (those that use them) - do they cut more noise than standard foam type plugs? I am basically looking for the highest attenuation possible but realize that there is a limit where noise is coming in basically through your bones.. I know the basic ones aren't particular good at a flat EQ, but they do cut a hig Db, so just wondered if the money is worth spending or not.. as I say, its the high decibel reduction across all the EQ range that I am after, I don't care if I can't hear people talking to me.

Cirrus

octatonic said:

Roland said:

How different is the volume between your clean and distorted sound, and do you like distortion bright or fat? It might be that your distorted sound is much higher volume so that it doesn't get lost in the band mix. My crunch is about 5dB louder than clean, and overdrive is another 5dB on top of that. (One of the advantages of a modeller is that I can dial the volume in). In isolation the distorted channel sounds much too loud, but as soon as the rest of the band kicks in all three channels sound about the same level.

5db, really?
10db is pretty close to double the perceived volume so the difference between your clean and overdrive is going to be enormous.

Two thoughts. Firstly, a 5dB difference in volume settings in the interface could just be what's needed to balance out systemic volume differences between patches - i.e, if you actually got out a dB meter at a gig to measure the difference it wouldn't be a 5dB difference in real volume in the room. Secondly, I do tend to find that overdrive settings need to be a bit louder to sit at about the same place in the mix, just because overdriven sounds are more compressed with less transients/ dynamics. The thing that drives me mad is that I tweak my volumes based on the actual dynamics in our songs when the band is playing so things sound right, then at a soundcheck I'll play the guitar in isolation and less experienced sound men have pointed out that the distortion is a bit louder than the clean. Yes, it is, just wait until the gig starts and you'll see why.

pmg

Exorcist said:

How do you find the 27's (those that use them) - do they cut more noise than standard foam type plugs? I am basically looking for the highest attenuation possible but realize that there is a limit where noise is coming in basically through your bones.. I know the basic ones aren't particular good at a flat EQ, but they do cut a hig Db, so just wondered if the money is worth spending or not.. as I say, its the high decibel reduction across all the EQ range that I am after, I don't care if I can't hear people talking to me.

They're excellent for my needs.  I have no hearing damage and want to remain that way.  

PolarityMan

With clean sounds I find that the plugs make it feel like the note decays a lot faster and you lose some of the note tails. Like I can hear the transients just fine but because it's not as compressed as the distortion it sometimes feels like I don't have enough sustain when it sounds fine in the room.

Exorcist

pmg said:

Exorcist said:

How do you find the 27's (those that use them) - do they cut more noise than standard foam type plugs? I am basically looking for the highest attenuation possible but realize that there is a limit where noise is coming in basically through your bones.. I know the basic ones aren't particular good at a flat EQ, but they do cut a hig Db, so just wondered if the money is worth spending or not.. as I say, its the high decibel reduction across all the EQ range that I am after, I don't care if I can't hear people talking to me.

They're excellent for my needs.  I have no hearing damage and want to remain that way.  

Thanks @pmg so would you say they cut more volume than standard foam type earplugs? Sadly I suffer from severe tinnitus (not necessarily noise related) so protecting my ears to the absolute maximum (plugs + ear defenders) is very important to me as I don't want it to get unnecessarily worse.

pmg

I'm no expert on this but generic ear plugs are better than foam, custom mounds better still as they're designed to specifically fit your ears.  The acs 27 cut off more high end than the 20s so it depends on your needs.  Like I say, our drummer is loud so the 27s suit me.  

Go go on the acs website and look at the frequency charts or give them a call