So how do you folks use delay?

Pyroman

  Don't Mad Professor also make an OD/+ delay pedal called Mad Cello?  I see them for sale at GC all the time.  Tried one out once, but I was a rank newb then, and had no idea how to use it effectively... 

monquixote

Golden Cello - It's an exclusive to one of the big US shops I think

ESBlonde

So how do you folks use delay?

I'll tell you later.





;-)

Pyroman

monquixote said:

Golden Cello - It's an exclusive to one of the big US shops I think

Hah- I knew it was something like that.

paulk

Most of the time I just double to thicken up the sound a bit.  

Gassage

Does anyone parallel mix their delay? You really should try this for lovely lush clean crisp delay

monquixote

Gassage said:

Does anyone parallel mix their delay? You really should try this for lovely lush clean crisp delay

Through a different amp?

Gassage

No, thru a parallel mixing box like a gigrig wetbox or a badger schism?

Basically, you split the input signal into 2, put on half into delay and return only the trails, then remix at output stage so you get a much more accurate trail without a ghost note on the core note (if that makes sense).

With a Wetbox you can add an exp pedal to adjust the mix, which is fab in a very Edge way.

Uber expensive units like the TES do it internally. Gilmour is the king of delay and all his delays are mixed like this. If you want more info I did a long thread on TGP on this and I'll c and p it.

It makes a huge difference but you need to get a delay unit that has the dry kill function otherwise pointless.

midiglitch

Where's the sit back, light up and watch the show emoticon these days?

Gassage

THE TGP POINTS

Originally Posted by QuietInTheDark what does the schism give you that a delay with a mix knob does not? All the delays I have seem to have little affect on the tone if the mix is at zero. Not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely curious. I am a pretty minimal effects guy and I am trying to learn.

No probs.

OK- your question is tough to answer as some delays (a few, not many) have internal parallel mixing (PM).

NB- for PM'ing delays, you need a delay unit with a DRY KILL or DRY DEFEAT function. Pointless doing it otherwise. This doesn't apply to PMing mods, where you're colouring the notes, not repeating them.

True PM is achieved by splitting the signal into 2 at the input of the delay or mixer. You then send one signal to the delay chip, and return only the delay trails. At the output stage of the delay or mixer, you then add the two signals back together. The key advantage is you're not duplicating the original guitar note when the delay trails are returned. Hope you follow that. Good units to do this are the Xotic, Gigrig and Schism. (I like the Schism as it's got a few more features on it and a buffer inside)

As I say, few units have true parallel mixing inside them (the Cornish TES does, not sure what others do?).

The aural advantage is that (IMO) you get a much bigger cleaner sound, less mush on the core note, and also you can control saturation and levels to finer degrees.

I can't articulate this better than saying you can hear a serious differenct between the 2 approaches.

Hope this helps!


EDIT: understand the Schism is a mixing box, not a delay itself. Sorry if I didn't explain that bit

I use a catalinbread belle epoch delay - this delay was modelled after the ep-3 echoplex, so it has a preamp that adds coloration to the dry tone. This coloration is pleasing most of the time - but there are times when I want to dial it down. I picked up a wounded paw v2 blender to accomplish this is and it works beautifully and was relatively inexpensive.

I run the mix on the belle epoch on full or near full and use the blender to gradually blend in as much delay mix as I want. I can also run the mix on the delay lower and then turn up the blender mix higher to get the right ratio of preamp coloration.

The nice thing about the wounder paw unit it it has switches to reverse phase as well as to allow trails by turning off the input, but keeping the output active. It also has a musical 2 band baxandall eq with bass and treble knobs as well as level for the dry tone. Initially I was gravitating towards the xotic x-blender, which I've used and like - the key difference being the xotic's eq is on the repeats, not the dry tone, vs the wounded paw's eq is on the dry tone. Ended up trying out the wounded paw and like having the extra eq on the dry - since cb has dialed in the eq of the repeats to perfection already.

Highly recommend the wounded paw blender for anyone that wants to do some parallel blending.   

monquixote

Gassage said:

No, thru a parallel mixing box like a gigrig wetbox or a badger schism?

Basically, you split the input signal into 2, put on half into delay and return only the trails, then remix at output stage so you get a much more accurate trail without a ghost note on the core note (if that makes sense).

With a Wetbox you can add an exp pedal to adjust the mix, which is fab in a very Edge way.

Uber expensive units like the TES do it internally. Gilmour is the king of delay and all his delays are mixed like this. If you want more info I did a long thread on TGP on this and I'll c and p it.

It makes a huge difference but you need to get a delay unit that has the dry kill function otherwise pointless.

That's what the mix control on a delay does. 

Gassage

monquixote said:

Gassage said:

No, thru a parallel mixing box like a gigrig wetbox or a badger schism?

Basically, you split the input signal into 2, put on half into delay and return only the trails, then remix at output stage so you get a much more accurate trail without a ghost note on the core note (if that makes sense).

With a Wetbox you can add an exp pedal to adjust the mix, which is fab in a very Edge way.

Uber expensive units like the TES do it internally. Gilmour is the king of delay and all his delays are mixed like this. If you want more info I did a long thread on TGP on this and I'll c and p it.

It makes a huge difference but you need to get a delay unit that has the dry kill function otherwise pointless.

That's what the mix control on a delay does. 

No it doesn't. It mixes the core note back in too!!!

Gassage

Right: this is from Pete Cornish: PARALLEL MIXED DELAYS IN THE MK II BOARD - The delay system inside and outside the Mk II board is very interesting. People always wonder how David gets his smooth delay sounds. David often uses two delays. Stacking one delay after another in your signal chain can degrade your tone because your original signal travels through, and is altered by, two delay circuits before coming out the other end. Also, two delays in line, while useful for some double tap delay effects, means that one delay creates repeats that are then repeated again by a second delay, which can create a messy delay sound. David's setup in the Mk II board is very different.Inside the board is a two mode delay. The first mode is a Boss DD-2 digital delay, with controls located in the Delay 1 section. Controls are identical to the old Boss DD-2/DD-3 delay. L/M/S (shown in the board diagram above) represent long, medium, and short delay time modes. David has tick marks for only long and short positions. DTM is delay time. F/BK is feedback, or the number of echo repeats. Knob settings shown above correspond to a Boss DD-2 set at approximately 440ms delay with feedback/echo repeats set at 80%. The red knob marked DLY in the Delay Masters section is a mix knob for the DD-2.The second mode of the delay circuit is the T.E.S. This is meant to simulate the warm, limited bandwidth sound of an old analog tape echo delay by rolling off the high frequencies gradually wth each echo repeat. The on/off switch for the TES circuit switch is labeled B/W on the board, for bandwidth, and the B/W knob in the Delay Master section is to control the amount of roll off the TES applies to the DD-2 echo repeats. The blue MXR knob is a mix knob for the external MXR digital delay.There are foot switches to turn the delay on (Delay 1), switch to the T.E.S. circuit (B/W), and switch on the external MXR digital delay (MXR). To maintain the best possible signal quality, these delays are mixed parallel with the original signal. This keeps the original dry signal from being altered when running through the delay circuits by splitting off a separate signal to the delays, while the original signal is allowed to run though the other effects on the board, then mixing the delayed signals back with the original dry signal at the end of the signal chain before it hits the amplifier. The signal splits three ways - a dry signal, a DD-2/TES signal set for 100% echo repeats only (meaning no dry signal, only the repeats), and an MXR signal set to 100% echo repeats only. These are then mixed together inside the board with the red and blue mix control knobs you see in the Delay Masters section. By having the two delays in separate signal chains, one delay does not repeat the other. This allows David to get the benefits of two delays, each with different delay times, creating a huge delay sound without very noticeable echo repeats. At times it has the feel of reverb, but without the negative tone altering affect reverb causes. The unique characteristics of each delay remain intact, and are nicely blended together with the pristine dry signal before they hit the amplifier.

monquixote

I can see that might be useful if you want to use an old vintage delay that messes about with your tone, but not really a bother with something half decent. With the mix down my Deep Blue sounds like the bypass signal. 

It would appear from that from the Cornish article that the main thing was to avoid multiple repeats cascading, but again a modern pedal can do that with a multi tap.

Gassage

There's another advantage too- that is taking the modulation OFF the delays....it's all good though. I did this for ages and I could really hear a difference.

Gassage

monquixote

Gassage said:

If ever there is a pedal you don't need to do this with it's an El Cap. 

It's specifically mentioned in the specs that the clean passes straight through.