Strap button positions

Rocker

I always felt that the positioning of the strap button on Les Pauls, Tele and Strat were perfect.  The strap sits nicely on the shoulder as a result.  I can never understand why the SG, 335 etc. have strap buttons at the back of the guitar which means the strap is twisted when worn. Even better is the Tom Anderson idea of using two strap button on the end, the guitar can be safely stood against the amp as a result. 

ICBM

The strap on an SG or 335 isn't twisted when worn. You put it on the front button with the outer side against the guitar so it lies flat down your chest. The reason they're there is because there's nowhere else to mount it on an SG (horn too pointy) or 335 (body is hollow).

I do prefer them on the body horn where it's possible though - that puts the button at the right position relative to the neck, for me - at least on a double-cut guitar. I prefer to have the button parallel to about the 12th to the 14th fret (14th is ideal) - the problem with the SG and 355 isn't that it's on the back, it's that it's too far up the neck, so the neck is further out to the left which I find awkward. A Tele or a Les Paul (parallel with the 16th fret) isn't too bad though.

I don't like the Anderson buttons either - neither of them is in the right place.

martinw

Rocker said:

 I can never understand why the SG, 335 etc. have strap buttons at the back of the guitar which means the strap is twisted when worn.

Nonsense. How can the strap be twisted? It's parallel to the back of the guitar which is parallel to your chest, approximately, unless you have an odd physiology. You do realise you push the button through the 'front' of the strap, not the back as normal? It's actually less twisted, if anything.

I prefer this strap button position, and have all mine like that i.e. with the strap button in the 'neck plate' position. Because it's on the centreline of the guitar, rather than off-centre as the traditional position, it doesn't apply a turning moment and allows the guitar to hang in a more natural position.

I find that, when worn at the height I wear a guitar, the 'traditional' top-horn position twists the neck slightly away from my forearm, and causes me to get a sore wrist.

Skipped

I think the position of the front strap button may be one reason why I stuck with SGs for such a long time. It might be the perfect stage guitar because the strap can swivel slightly on the front button.
Also - with the Les Paul strap button - how did guys in the fifties stop the strap from slipping off the button? (before people started using washers/straplocks). Was it pure luck? Extra stiff leather strap?

p90fool

Nobody bought them in the 50s, maybe that's why

ICBM

martinw said:

I prefer this strap button position, and have all mine like that i.e. with the strap button in the 'neck plate' position. Because it's on the centreline of the guitar, rather than off-centre as the traditional position, it doesn't apply a turning moment and allows the guitar to hang in a more natural position.

That's odd, I find the opposite! The other reason I don't like the back-of-the-heel position is because the guitar tends to turn forwards if you take both hands off it. It's most noticeable with acoustics (I really hate it on the back of the heel with them), but still a bit on electrics.

It may depend on the height you have them at though.

Skipped said:

Also - with the Les Paul strap button - how did guys in the fifties stop the strap from slipping off the button? (before people started using washers/straplocks). Was it pure luck? Extra stiff leather strap?

They relied on stiff leather strap slots and luck . There's a famous bit of film of Clapton's Strat coming off the strap during The Last Waltz - he hasn't noticed it's folded back on itself when he starts, but the slot is tight enough that it doesn't come off straight away.

Rocker

ICBM said:

The strap on an SG or 335 isn't twisted when worn. You put it on the front button with the outer side against the guitar so it lies flat down your chest. The reason they're there is because there's nowhere else to mount it on an SG (horn too pointy) or 335 (body is hollow).

I don't like the Anderson buttons either - neither of them is in the right place.

I always leave straps on my guitars on the rack so when I pickup the Aria [335 copy], the strap always ends up twisted at the end of the guitar [the neck end works fine TBH even if it looks wrong].  Of course I have the shiny side of the strap against the guitar body!!! This never happens on my Tele or Strat.  On every SG I have tried, and I did own one once, the neck strap button position makes the guitar slightly neck heavy IMHO.  This neck heaviness might be counteracted by fitting a Bigsby - one of the few reasons that a Bigsby might improve an SG.  Again IMHO.

As I understand it, the Anderson system uses both strap buttons.  The Anderson strap has cutouts to match the buttons - this is how I use mine anyway.  The two together actually positions the guitar body 'better' for me.  The Strat positions itself almost as good as the Anderson, Teles being more plank like could benefit from a second strap button [Anderson like].

Back pain and an injury when I was younger means I have to be seated to play.  I sit on a drum stool, hence my strap requirements might be more specific than most.  For me, playing standing up is almost impossible.

martinw

ICBM said:

martinw said:

I prefer this strap button position, and have all mine like that i.e. with the strap button in the 'neck plate' position. Because it's on the centreline of the guitar, rather than off-centre as the traditional position, it doesn't apply a turning moment and allows the guitar to hang in a more natural position.

That's odd, I find the opposite! The other reason I don't like the back-of-the-heel position is because the guitar tends to turn forwards if you take both hands off it. It's most noticeable with acoustics (I really hate it on the back of the heel with them), but still a bit on electrics.

My guitar doesn't turn when I take my hands off it! It hangs naturally in the position I play it in. Not sure how you'd hold the guitar twisted whilst playing?

By putting the strap button a la SG, I find the guitar hangs where I want it, whereas I couldn't play Strats before because of the angle they hang at. I play thumb-behind and medium height, so clearly a thumb-over player would have a different ergonomic ideal. I know that how I have things is perfect for me, and isn't some kind of ergo-oddity; I have thought it through!

Skipped

I wrote to D'Addario to ask them to bring out a wider version of their (excellent) Planet Lock strap, and also to bring out a version for SG's/335s (the padding on the  locking end of the strap is facing the wrong way......)
They replied saying a wider strap is an excellent idea. And ignored the other bit.

ICBM

Rocker said:

As I understand it, the Anderson system uses both strap buttons.  The Anderson strap has cutouts to match the buttons - this is how I use mine anyway.

That can't work properly because the strap would end up trying to be parallel to the body, whereas it needs to be at an angle towards the back... unless you twist the strap sideways, which wouldn't be good for it.

martinw said:

My guitar doesn't turn when I take my hands off it! It hangs naturally in the position I play it in. Not sure how you'd hold the guitar twisted whilst playing?

Does it not have a tendency for the guitar body to tilt outwards when you take your hands off - because the weight is hanging in front of the strap? Every guitar with a heel strap button does that for me, acoustics the worst and SGs the least (due to the body depth obviously) but they all do.

With the buttons on the edges of the body with the weight of the guitar directly below it hangs naturally at the right angle with no tendency to tip.

I have to admit I've never really thought about this before other than to dislike the heel position, and I never imagined it would be different for other people!

martinw

ICBM said:

  martinw said:

My guitar doesn't turn when I take my hands off it! It hangs naturally in the position I play it in. Not sure how you'd hold the guitar twisted whilst playing?

Does it not have a tendency for the guitar body to tilt outwards when you take your hands off - because the weight is hanging in front of the strap?

No, my body is in the way! I didn't want to do this (sigh). Ignoring the fat, ugly bloke playing, I think this shows what I'm on about. You can imagine I hope that attaching the strap to the top horn pulls the top of the guitar towards me at an angle that makes me twist my wrist a bit more...just that bit too far actually, causes pain. This feels very natural to me:

I have to admit I've never really thought about this before other than to dislike the heel position, and I never imagined it would be different for other people!

Lol! Have you done that psychopath test? heh heh

octatonic

ICBM said:

I don't like the Anderson buttons either - neither of them is in the right place.

For me they are in the perfect place & you don't need to take a stand with you to a gig.

daveyh

octatonic said:

ICBM said:

I don't like the Anderson buttons either - neither of them is in the right place.

For me they are in the perfect place & you don't need to take a stand with you to a gig.

That's one of those 'WTF didn't I think of that?' moments. Have a wisdom.

ICBM

martinw said:

No, my body is in the way! I didn't want to do this (sigh). Ignoring the fat, ugly bloke playing, I think this shows what I'm on about. You can imagine I hope that attaching the strap to the top horn pulls the top of the guitar towards me at an angle that makes me twist my wrist a bit more...just that bit too far actually, causes pain. This feels very natural to me:

Aha! That explains it... you have the guitar miles higher and at a much steeper angle than I do.

If you simply take that pic and move the guitar down so that the neck is roughly horizontal, so the top horn is where the end of the strap is while keeping everything else the same, that's about where I have it.

martinw said:

Lol! Have you done that psychopath test? heh heh

lol

Actually it's a physicality thing ... I'm 5'6 and I weigh

you probably don't want to know, but not a lot more than my amp .

martinw

ICBM said:

Aha! That explains it... you have the guitar miles higher and at a much steeper angle than I do.

If you simply take that pic and move the guitar down so that the neck is roughly horizontal, so the top horn is where the end of the strap is while keeping everything else the same, that's about where I have it.

Ah ok. We're all different. I couldn't reach that far down, my arms are too short!

I blame my mum for smoking while I was in the womb...still, shouldn't be too harsh....it was the 60s...smoking was still considered good for you then. Actually compulsory in some workplaces.

Lew

You're turning into Henry Rollins, Martin! Cool guitar. Got any more pics?

I like the strap button on the back of the body too. It was something I requested on my custom build - although I had it on the back of the top horn (which is massive) and not in the place it would be on an SG.

DrBob

I, (In typical me style) have compounded the 'problem' with my 335.
Until I got it I'd only ever had guitars with the Strap button on the top horn like on a Strat.

When I got my 535 (Heritage) I was extremely nervous about it coming off of it's strap so I fitted (well I had Jonathan at Feline do it, the thought of taking a drill to the neck heel made me feel a bit squeamish) Dunlop Straplocks.

On reflection not a great move because of the way that Straplocks like this effectively move the connection between guitar & strap further apart as the strap now hangs off of the end of the strap button..

I find it makes the guitar pivot forward along the axis described by the strap buttons tilting the playing surface (fingerboard, strings, pickups & knobs) away from me..

Doh !

ChrisMusic

@DrBob said: 

On reflection not a great move because of the way that Straplocks like this effectively move the connection between guitar & strap further apart as the strap now hangs off of the end of the strap button..

I find it makes the guitar pivot forward along the axis described by the strap buttons tilting the playing surface (fingerboard, strings, pickups & knobs) away from me..

That sounds like a real pain, it would affect how I feel about playability and my relationship with that particular guitar.

I think the SG / heel position is more innately secure anyway, I certainly never had problems with it, live or otherwise.

I also like the neck extending further out, as a six footer I find LPs etc 'scrunch' in a bit too far, still love 'em though.

Why not just go back to a secure button style and if you are still nervous just "Grolsch it" ?

ICBM

martinw said:

Ah ok. We're all different. I couldn't reach that far down, my arms are too short!

Ah, it makes sense now. I tried holding my guitar with my arms in the same position as yours, and the guitar ends up about six inches lower - I would never have thought I had long arms either. I play with my arms a lot straighter than that too, left especially… so I think that explains how we prefer the different button positions.

DrBob said:

On reflection not a great move because of the way that Straplocks like this effectively move the connection between guitar & strap further apart as the strap now hangs off of the end of the strap button..

I find it makes the guitar pivot forward along the axis described by the strap buttons tilting the playing surface (fingerboard, strings, pickups & knobs) away from me..

That's exactly what I find, only exaggerated by the straplock. This is one of the things I really dislike about all metal straplocks. (It puts a lot of stress on the button and the screw as well.)

Easy enough to fix, as ChrisMusic said - take the straplock off the strap and use it directly on the button with a Grolsch washer or a Dunlop Ergo straplock. That will trap the strap tightly against the guitar where it should be.

octatonic

daveyh said:

octatonic said:

ICBM said:

I don't like the Anderson buttons either - neither of them is in the right place.

For me they are in the perfect place & you don't need to take a stand with you to a gig.

That's one of those 'WTF didn't I think of that?' moments. Have a wisdom.

It was the reason Tom Anderson came up with it, I believe when he was at Schecter.

He got sick of taking stands to gigs.

JayGee

octatonic said:

daveyh said:

octatonic said:

ICBM said:

I don't like the Anderson buttons either - neither of them is in the right place.

For me they are in the perfect place & you don't need to take a stand with you to a gig.

That's one of those 'WTF didn't I think of that?' moments. Have a wisdom.

It was the reason Tom Anderson came up with it, I believe when he was at Schecter.

He got sick of taking stands to gigs.

Flying V owners have been feeling smug about this since 1958... :-)