Options for first acoustic build?

AustrianJohn

Happy crimble to one and all on FB!

My first few electric guitar builds were based on Harley Benton kits, which was a great - and inexpensive - way to start. Many acoustic guitar kits have pre-built bodies, but I want to learn the woodworking skills required to build the whole guitar - including the body. The best option I've found is from D C Guitars http://www.luthiersupplies.co.uk/dcguitar_kits_4.htm Can anyone here comment on this kit? Any other suggestions for an acoustic guitar kit under £200?

octatonic

I don't know that supplier but if you can get all the parts to build an acoustic guitar for under £200 then that is pretty good.

I'd want to make sure you can return components if you aren't happy with them and get them replaced before buying.
How do you propose bending the sides?

AustrianJohn

octatonic said:

I don't know that supplier but if you can get all the parts to build an acoustic guitar for under £200 then that is pretty good.

I'd want to make sure you can return components if you aren't happy with them and get them replaced before buying.
How do you propose bending the sides?

I'm doing the Bailey Build Your Own Acoustic Guitar online course and plan to rent or buy an Ibex side bending iron from Bailey.

octatonic

Ok cool.

You will have a mould to put it in then, once you've bent the sides, right?

AustrianJohn

octatonic said:

Ok cool.

You will have a mould to put it in then, once you've bent the sides, right?

That, I think, is the plan - but I haven't finished the course yet.

octatonic

I'm sure that is how he will do it.

FWIW I'd go for rosewood over mahogany, although be aware the Cites rules have changed recently if you intend on travelling with the instrument.

Danielsguitars

I hope someone is going to show you how to bend the ribs

I went to college to learn and bending ribs is not that easy imo
It takes practice, the more you do the easier it is and an experienced person to show you is highly recommend

I'm rusty but do plan on building something next year so I can remember how to do it, we use a bending iron and fox bender which is better for a more consistent bend but not necessary.

I built a mahogany martin oo style as my first one, it was fairly cheap wood but I got good results 

My second was Amazon rosewood back and sides, much more expensive wood

Point is start with cheap wood get experience then upgrade wood on the next builds

octatonic

customkits said:

I hope someone is going to show you how to bend the ribs

I went to college to learn and bending ribs is not that easy imo
It takes practice, the more you do the easier it is and an experienced person to show you is highly recommend

This is why I asked him.
I was also shown by people who knew how to do it.
It is the trickiest part of the build- these days I use a bending machine.

Danielsguitars

Exactly that's why we use a fox bender too

I was also going to say my mahogany ribs came out with slight ripples, I only used a side bending iron by hand

It was lack of experience, rib thickness has alot to do with it and how much heat and water mist is used with a cloth 

Not bloody easy that's for sure

octatonic

I have the LMI bender, which is a version of the Fox.
Yes, rib thickness is key.
I get rosewood down to about 1.9mm and mahogany to 2.1mm.

Danielsguitars

I only used a side bender by hand for my first 2 

I'll be using the fox bender on anything else
You still need the side bender on tight bends and cutaways etc

Those thickness measurements sound about right but it's along time ago now

Definitely time for a refresh next year

I do have a 335 style build planned though which is the same construction methods 

octatonic

Yup, this is true.

Kalimna

I built my first acoustic with Mark Bailey, and the method we used at the time (don't know if his online course has changed much) was to bend the sides and build on a board without an outside mould. There will be a very slight discrepancy between the shape on each side, but this method allows you some wiggle room in shaping that the outside mould does not. It is perhaps a little more awkward, but I have managed a pair of concert ukes using this method and it works well.
whichever kit you go for (and the LMI kit scores highly, but will possibly be more expensive), I would absolutely without question factor in the acoustic building book by Natelson and Cumpiano. It is possibly the most comprehensive guide out there, and is invaluable for general luthiery. Some of their techniques might be considered old fashioned, but I can guarantee you won't be displeased - it is pretty much also the book Mark started his acoustic building with.
good luck with the build, and be prepared to make mistakes and ask questions

Adam

AustrianJohn

Kalimna said:

I built my first acoustic with Mark Bailey, and the method we used at the time (don't know if his online course has changed much) was to bend the sides and build on a board without an outside mould. There will be a very slight discrepancy between the shape on each side, but this method allows you some wiggle room in shaping that the outside mould does not. It is perhaps a little more awkward, but I have managed a pair of concert ukes using this method and it works well.
whichever kit you go for (and the LMI kit scores highly, but will possibly be more expensive), I would absolutely without question factor in the acoustic building book by Natelson and Cumpiano. It is possibly the most comprehensive guide out there, and is invaluable for general luthiery. Some of their techniques might be considered old fashioned, but I can guarantee you won't be displeased - it is pretty much also the book Mark started his acoustic building with.
good luck with the build, and be prepared to make mistakes and ask questions

Adam

Mark is publishing each lesson in the Build Your Own Acoustic course as they are filmed, and he hasn't yet got to the sides. I have the beautiful Bogdanovich book which proposes the use of side moulds. I'll wait to see what Mark proposes, but building my own moulds or biting the bullet and buying the LMI kit are options. I've already mastered the art of mistake making with my electric guitar builds :-(

Danielsguitars

I'd say you need a proper guitar body jig
Just for the fact of using a front and back radius jig, it's easier imo because it's all held in shape with inside braces 

Also shaping the end blocks the body mould is used with sandpaper on the inside, that's how I got taught anyway

I can post up some pics at some point

Building the body mould is not too bad either, you can use mdf sheets
Get your guitar template half shape, cut the shape out on mdf then use that to route 3 others then glue the 2 halves together, glue and pin pine blocks in between top and bottom mdf templates, you can use a router to shape the pine blocks after

when your not working on the body you hold it in the correct shape

octatonic

customkits said:

Also shaping the end blocks the body mould is used with sandpaper on the inside, that's how I got taught anyway

We were taught (on musical instruments degree) that was cheating and told to use a plane.
Everyone ignored it and used sandpaper.
It is better.

Danielsguitars

octatonic said:

customkits said:

Also shaping the end blocks the body mould is used with sandpaper on the inside, that's how I got taught anyway

We were taught (on musical instruments degree) that was cheating and told to use a plane.
Everyone ignored it and used sandpaper.
It is better.

I'd like to see how just a plane to shape it is possible, fine to get to rough shape imo

Originally our course was a city and guilds until they pulled the plug
I didn't care about the paperwork it was the teacher that made that course worth it 

The guy that taught us is just an unbelievabley skilled and knowledgeable teacher
He's the head of instrument making at Merton college 
I think he's been there 37years

mellowsun

I built my first acoustic in the living room of a shared flat when I first moved to London.

I bent the sides (after thicknessing them with a sharp plane and hours of scraping) by soaking them in the bath and then bending them to approximately the right shape with a bending iron, then clamping them into the mound and leaving it in there overnight.

If doing it by hand you just need to take your time and bend a little at a time, keep the wood wet, applying gentle but firm hand pressure with the bending iron.

Tbh I was lucky, I didn't really know what I was doing and was just following the instructions in the David Russell Young book! 

octatonic

customkits said:

octatonic said:

customkits said:

Also shaping the end blocks the body mould is used with sandpaper on the inside, that's how I got taught anyway

We were taught (on musical instruments degree) that was cheating and told to use a plane.
Everyone ignored it and used sandpaper.
It is better.

I'd like to see how just a plane to shape it is possible, fine to get to rough shape imo

Originally our course was a city and guilds until they pulled the plug
I didn't care about the paperwork it was the teacher that made that course worth it 

The guy that taught us is just an unbelievabley skilled and knowledgeable teacher
He's the head of instrument making at Merton college 
I think he's been there 37years

I've done it (once, never again).
Took me hours.
I went to London Met fwiw.

Danielsguitars

octatonic said:

customkits said:

octatonic said:

customkits said:

Also shaping the end blocks the body mould is used with sandpaper on the inside, that's how I got taught anyway

We were taught (on musical instruments degree) that was cheating and told to use a plane.
Everyone ignored it and used sandpaper.
It is better.

I'd like to see how just a plane to shape it is possible, fine to get to rough shape imo

Originally our course was a city and guilds until they pulled the plug
I didn't care about the paperwork it was the teacher that made that course worth it 

The guy that taught us is just an unbelievabley skilled and knowledgeable teacher
He's the head of instrument making at Merton college 
I think he's been there 37years

I've done it (once, never again).
Took me hours.
I went to London Met fwiw.

that sounds a bit like my first Lp joint the one with the stupid lip, I think they're used on 335's

Took me bloody hours by hand to get perfect

earwighoney

MadInter have kits for nylon strings, the ones without pre bent sides are a fair chunk less than the ones with pre bent sides

http://www.madinter.com/wood/kits.html?dir=asc&order=price

I came across a few at Maderas Barber as well, which aren't as high in quality but the prices are decent - pre bent sides albeit laminate
http://maderasbarber.com/tonewood/en/acoustic-guitar-kits/2759-acoustic-guitar-kit-model-folk.html