Wudtone Frustration/Issues. Anyone Else?

randomhandclaps

Right long story short - I got two new bodies.  I decided despite having a spray booth I would give Tru-oil and Wudtone a go (one on each) to broaden my experience.

The Tru-oiled walnut body was a lot of graft but is looking gorgeous.  The wudtone however is making me want to put my head through a window currently.  Originally I wanted to go for surfer girl but Mrs RHC insisted on the boldness of azure lagoon.  I followed every instruction to the letter, including leaving two curing days between each coat.  After four base coats it was looking even but more of a wash than a colour.  I looked through the forum and noticed a thread by TTony where he had had similar results initially with cherry flamenco and put it down to not working in the deep colour coat hard enough.  So off I go to the workshop and sand the body back down again and start over.  An exhaustive deep colour coat, three base coats and the best part of two weeks later and I am back to where I was.  The colour is far from the picture below.  It's faint and varies from dark in the grain to virtually bare wood.  I have barely enough base coat left to do a couple more coats and it seems to be adding little to the colour anyway.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Azure-Lagoon.jpg

I am at the point of not really knowing what to do.  One of the reasons I wanted to try wudtone was the two bodies were such lovely grain I wanted to leave them showing but now have a part dyed piece of ash.  I'm frustrated and to be honest a little bit pissed off as my kids bought me the kit for my birthday and the are expecting to see something approaching the image above.

I noticed in @ThePrettyDamned thread that his colour looked more washy than solid (far from the photo on the Wudtone site) but was not sure if this is due to it being a lighter, less bold colour.

.A lot of motivation for doing a Tru-oil finish came from both reading articles @WezV has written and seeing some of the results of his excellent work. Then my frustration was heightened after reading this by @WezV in another thread after a search -

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/5201/what-s-the-best-thing-for-removing-danish-oil/p1

It's obviously easy to say that the wood can effect this and that, blah,blah, but I can't believe such differing or inconsistent results can be a matter of luck.  How are you to know if you body is really suitable or not?

@ThePrettyDamned & @WezV, apologies for tagging you in this thread but I wouldn't like to mention someone without them knowing.

ThePrettyDamned

Not at all mate.

I chose a vintagey washy colour from choice - with the solid finishes (which azure lagoon is not), you just keep adding coats until you're happy. Initially, I wanted near solid but the body I got had such nice grain, it would be a shame to cover it.

So it looks more like a faded, vintage surf green colour.

My jazzmaster is also wudtone, and more typical of the azure. It's translucent and you have to use it on bare wood - ttony actually routed half a mil off the top of his to ensure this! And it was worth it.

The very first coat, don't be shy. Load up the cloth, apply it wet and rub it in, then add more. The wood will literally just drink it up. On my first coat on the back of the jazzmaster, I used over half a bottle of the deep colour! Then I added a second coat of deep colour, which was applied in the same was as the base coats - thin, to add depth.

So my advice would be to rub the finish in - hard. Your first coat should get you relatively close to the colour you want. The grain in ash just drinks it.

Try sanding to just 240 grit - this was what I used on the jazzmaster and it took colour much easier than the tele, which was 320 grit. (Woops, wrong way around! Tele was 240, jm was 320).

Also, I did a tester of wudtone on maple - I'll see if I can find it, and you can compare results, as azure was used. It's not always blue - if the wood is yellowy, it makes for a slightly greener finish. Looked cracking, though. I'll dig it out and edit this post.

If you want more advice, let me know. But my gut says to sand back with 60 grit, smoother with 120, 180 and 240 grit, then really work the finish in.

randomhandclaps

Thank you, mate.  You wood sample looked great.  I think I am going to sand back and give it one more go with what I've got - nothing to lose at this point.

 

TTony

I'd ask @andypwudtone for advice ...

ThePrettyDamned

Here is my tester. All were sanded to 240 grit and I used a selection of colours. The greeny one is azure.

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/5374/got-wud-my-now-updated-with-more-colours-wudtone-taster-thread

As you can see, once down to bare wood, I got great colours. I could probably bleach the maple for a bluer hue? I sent the samples to Andy at wudtone so he could use them for tinkering

So 240 grit is the magic number. I'm doing a mahogany body for the first time this year, courtesy of gspbasses. I'm going to be aiming for a dark grey back and sides. So it'll be interesting to see how mahogany works.

ThePrettyDamned

Just to add, if you look at my azure over sanded back black, you can see it's taken significantly less colour. So even though I've sanded it, it's still less able to absorb.

So perhaps worth taking the ttony approach?

ThePrettyDamned

PM incoming mate.  I got nearly a whole bottle of deep colour here you can have for nout.

frankus

I opted for Black Magic Woman on the Bass VI I'm building and I had VERY different results applying it to the body and the headstock.

On the body the Swamp Ash just drank all the colour up and looked amazing - very solid.

On the headstock the first attempt seemed grey rather than black - really nice contrast in the grain but not what I wanted. I figured the top coats would darken it, but it wasn't working out... so I stripped it back and just left the stain on the surface.. not great either. ..

After talking to Andy I sanded it back got another base colour coat and kept laying this stuff on at five minute intervals until it got around the darkness I wanted.

WezV

sounds pretty much like my experience, tbh i am glad I am not the only one that is struggling with it .... makes me feel a bit less daft

did you do anything to the body, or did it have anything on it before starting?   

I am still liking the clear for minimally finished necks, not sure i will be in a rush to try the colour again unless its on a raw ash body i have made myself and can guarantee has never touched anything else

t1000

Interesting thread as I have brought a wudtone kit to finish my SG kit. If the body is allready sanded how do I ensure its sanded to 240 grit? do I need to sand again with say a lower grit. Dont really fancy that if Im honest!

andypwudtone

randomhandclaps said:

Thank you, mate.  You wood sample looked great.  I think I am going to sand back and give it one more go with what I've got - nothing to lose at this point.

 

Hi there, thank you to TTony for alerting me to your problems, It would be helpful to see a pic of body you ar struggling with. Why not mail me a pic via mail@wudtone.com  or share here.   

ThePrettyDamned

t1000;146685" said:

Interesting thread as I have brought a wudtone kit to finish my SG kit. If the body is allready sanded how do I ensure its sanded to 240 grit? do I need to sand again with say a lower grit. Dont really fancy that if Im honest!

Just get 240 grit paper and a block, a couple of sheets and some sweat will have it keyed nicely doesn't take that long to be honest. Or write to the seller and ask what it's sanded to and if it's been sealed (must not be sealed).

randomhandclaps

WezV said:

sounds pretty much like my experience, tbh i am glad I am not the only one that is struggling with it .... makes me feel a bit less daft

did you do anything to the body, or did it have anything on it before starting?   

 

Nope.  Wood was completely raw ash cut by a friend - so I know it's origin.

After some advice and offer of some more colour from @ThePrettyDamned I went for shit or bust and sanded the whole thing back again.  I worked up through 60, 120, 180 & 240.  Tried again with the deep colour coat and straight away you could see it was the same deal so wasn't going through the whole process again.  I then roughed up the body with 180 and tried a bit more and it was a different story in that it was actually drinking it in better.  I am however out of deep colour coat but @ThePrettyDamned is incredibly kindly sending some my way so I will update on results.

andypwudtone

randomhandclaps said:

Nope.  Wood was completely raw ash cut by a friend - so I know it's origin.

Hi there, What is the origin of the wood? Northern Ash , Swamp Ash etc?

usedtobe

When I used it, it was sort of patchy. Passable, I think, but not as awesome as I'd hoped. 

I put it down to me being a bit crap, though, tbh..

randomhandclaps

andypwudtone said:

randomhandclaps said:

Nope.  Wood was completely raw ash cut by a friend - so I know it's origin.

Hi there, What is the origin of the wood? Northern Ash , Swamp Ash etc?

It's swamp ash.

andypwudtone

Do you have any pictures as it is hard to understand the problem without seeing what the wood is like / what is going on. Also what does the body weigh?

Thank you in advance.

 

andypwudtone

A couple more Azure lagoon examples, some lighter than others. How deep a shade are you aiming for? Do you have any pictures. I agree it isn't about luck at all. It is simply about the nature and condition of the wood surface prior to the initial application of the deep colour coat and number of base coats. As mentioned it is hard to understand the problem, offer any help without seeing what the wood is like / what is going on etc. Also what does the body weigh? kind regards

 

Bron_Yr_Aur

I'm doing a swamp ash tele body that I got from @Jooky in 'vintage blonde' at the moment. I'm doing the top coat now, and I have to say That I really like the look of it. I'll try and take some pics when I get home if that's any help?