Just goes to show...you never know who you know.

ThePrettyDamned

I've seen some adverts recently urging people who feel these desires to come forward to an anonymous helpline and get some help - before things spiral out of control. I suppose it treats it more as an illness than a crime. 

Then again, being gay is seen as an illness in some parts... Can you "cure" being a paedophile? 

joeyowen

People who are straight/gay are born that way. Do we think nonces are aswell? What should they do when they go through puberty and start getting wierd thoughts? 

I read about the rugby ref who went to the docs to chemically castrated when he realised he was gay (nigel something?)  I wonder if any of these cunts would do the same, and what should the docs do? Refer them? Or give them cyanide by mistake

Or, is it something they chose in adult life. In which case, what the actual fuck 

littlegreenman

joeyowen said:

People who are straight/gay are born that way. Do we think nonces are aswell? What should they do when they go through puberty and start getting wierd thoughts? 

I read about the rugby ref who went to the docs to chemically castrated when he realised he was gay (nigel something?)  I wonder if any of these cunts would do the same, and what should the docs do? Refer them? Or give them cyanide by mistake

Or, is it something they chose in adult life. In which case, what the actual fuck 

As far as the medical community is concerned it's all of the above, which makes it all the more difficult to judge. As with all types of behaviour outside of social norms there will always be schisms that need to be addressed.

A - Some are what you'd call the classic paedophile, a grown adult knowingly abusing very young children for their own gratification.

B - Some are emotionally and sexually stunted, possibly as a result of their own experiences of being abused, and most likely in need of help themselves before they offend.

C - Some may actually identify with younger children as being their "type", early teens or younger. Again, emotionally stunted individuals.

We need to be careful of labeling, but as a general rule I'd go with;

Group A - Catch and punish the fuckers. Get 'em done and in prison. Almost impossible to Police pre-offence.

Group B - Preferably identify early and isolate them from any chance of offending. The group that is most likely to kill their victims. The "Of Mice and Men" syndrome. Pretty much the most predictable and therefore potentially treatable with psychiatric measures or therapy.

Group C - They know it's wrong but fantasise and flirt with the idea anyway. This is the guy we have in the OP, and entrapment is entirely acceptable I'd say. Set them up and see where it goes, and if it ends up with a car park meet-up then the OP vid is a suitable end result.

Just my 2p.

Sambostar

 

Sambostar

 

Myranda

 My degree includes digital forensics so we've touched on the phenomenon of child porn ...

In addition to the above is a sort of pervy-hoarder - the above drummer would be a reasonable example of a beginner - for some the collections stretch out into tens of thousands of images or more. Between the gathering of the images, the cataloguing and the frankly alarming level of technical sophistication of their obfuscation* of their "hobby" it's likely there's little time left for fapping to it, so presumably it's somewhere in the mental health spectrum.

As to prevalence ... chances are likely that no, things are not happening more - but reduction in the stigma of reporting such things, and honey trap schemes like this combined with instant media (internet news, social media, text alerts), these things often seep more into public awareness.

Aaaaand... think about it logically - how many parents let their kids go off with strangers - so the world as a whole is not a target rich environment for paedophiles... families and close friends however are very much more trusting - claimed statistics are in the 80% ish range for attackers and victims knowing one another or being related. Aunts, uncles, mums, dads, friends-of-the-family etc are going to be the vast majority of paedophiles, so wont get identified by these honey traps, have the very real fear-factor of causing harm or stigma to victims so wont get reported etc... while the news might be filled with a handful of pervs (even if every day a new perv was on facebook that's only 365 a year, out of 62 million people in the UK, that's barely a statistical outlier, and we normally hear about 1 more than once and many days none... so the number outed is realistically tiny) the real terror isn't outside - its inside, maybe next to you, or next door. .. Maybe lock your kids out at night for their safety? not sure where I'm going with this... except that the media makes us think every stranger is a nonce, but statistically speaking, they're probably innocent and our young family members are being diddled by the uncle or aunt we left them with while we went out hunting for a paediatrician ... maybe we should chill more and let young people know they're in a loving place that will look after them if a relative touches them rather than be angry (that fear is what they use to hide most of the time!) After all, we wouldn't need to set honey traps if kids felt comfortable coming to us and saying "<insert name here> said they'd like to <insert sex act> on my <insert body part> and I don't think that's right" - early sex education and early talks about saying no - rather than stranger danger talks (or as well as... who knows). On that gloomy note...  

*Seriously! - the "average" child porn collector seems to employ levels of technical savvy you'd never expect to see in the average fapper. Hidden sites is one thing, but, the use of passworded stenography to embed an image in another safe image, only available at certain times of the day (so the authorities could go to the site, and see only innocent images... and even when the hidden images are up, there's no visual difference due to impressive image compression tech - you have to look for REDUCTIONS in file sizes when there are embedded files, not increases)... then there's the storage at home files: hidden in slack-space that you can only search with dedicated programs (or hex editing/forensic software), passworded drives, files, and directories... encryption of disks and files... I've used computers since I was 6, have an interest in IT and IT security and there are techniques I'd never used, or heard of that are apparently staple techniques! 

Sambostar

I don't get the victimisation.  It's a small part of higer prmiate behaviour, you just watch out for your kin.  Some people are funy, they'vew always been.  Ain'y no more more of them nowor anything.

Sambostar

Let's kill, a killing free, I'm dying to kill somebody, who's it gonna be?

holnrew

Strangefan said:

holnrew said:

Looks like I'm not welcome in Halifax




Sorry have to ask what the hell does that mean?! 

I'm a pediatrician

mike_l

You need to differentiate between a paedophile and a child abuser.

A paedophile is someone attracted to children, a child abuser abuses children. Not all paedophiles abuse children, not all child abusers are paedophiles.


There was a documentary a while back (Channel 4 IIRC), and a guy admitted on TV he was attracted to children, but he knew the difference between right and wrong and never looked at child porn or abused children.

Strangefan

holnrew said:

Strangefan said:

holnrew said:

Looks like I'm not welcome in Halifax




Sorry have to ask what the hell does that mean?! 

I'm a pediatrician






No your not you strange man. 

boogieman

JezWynd said:

I'd be interested to know if there's been a rise in adults targeting children or if it's always been there and is only now coming to light. There are certainly many more opportunities for people to act on their urges in the digital world but is there really a massive increase in the numbers of abusers?

I suspect the level has remained constant but as said the internet makes it easier these days. There is definitely more publicity and shaming going on now though. We used to play in the street as a kid and I can remember being told not to take sweets off a guy in our road and never to go into his house. We were just told he was " a funny man", but obviously our parents knew what he was. I suppose in those days (1950s) communities were a lot tighter. Most of our mums didn't work and stayed at home, so they usually knew what their kids were doing at any given time, so there was a degree of protection. 

Snap

mike_l said:

You need to differentiate between a paedophile and a child abuser.

A paedophile is someone attracted to children, a child abuser abuses children. Not all paedophiles abuse children, not all child abusers are paedophiles.


There was a documentary a while back (Channel 4 IIRC), and a guy admitted on TV he was attracted to children, but he knew the difference between right and wrong and never looked at child porn or abused children.

There is a lot of evidence to show that a paedo is wired differently so its incurable: its always there, the attraction. There are many who don't see it as wrong. That's very different to someone who gets done for having sex with a 15 year old, which could easily have been a mistake. Not that I am trying to excuse it.

A paedo gets done, sentenced to 5 or 6 years, and they are out, if they keep their nose clean, at the end of the sentence, at worst, During this time they can totally refuse to do any offender rehab, or any programs to address their behaviour. It would mean they get no early release, but released they are. At this point they may well have become a wellspring of desire and are like a gun ready to go off. They may well have also been mixing with other paedos. Unsurpisingly, a lot of them reoffend quite quickly and end up back in again, often for another fixed sentence.

Where I am going with this, is the argument around sentencing. IMO, subject to each cases sentence (allowing for any unique circumstances) paedos should get life. This way, if they don't address their behaviour, when in the nick, they don't get out. And if they do it again, they are back in for life.

This is the case with murder, and IMO, paedophilia is a worse crime.

Given a personal choice, I'd shoot them all.

ICBM

I would guess the overall level of potential child abusers is about the same as it has been throughout history. My belief is that it's actually *safer* for kids these days compared to in the past, despite - and because of - the wide public awareness and media reporting of it. The dangers are different now, but also by their very nature it's easier to catch the offenders and prove they're guilty.

boogieman

ICBM said:

I would guess the overall level of potential child abusers is about the same as it has been throughout history. My belief is that it's actually *safer* for kids these days compared to in the past, despite - and because of - the wide public awareness and media reporting of it. The dangers are different now, but also by their very nature it's easier to catch the offenders and prove they're guilty.

Not sure about it being "safer", just different I think. I suppose there is more awareness of paedophilia amongst kids nowadays. On the other hand digital photography and the internet means it's far easier to get images and to then pass them on. It'd be far more involved and risky in the old days.

Sambostar

If these people are really sick and wired differently then this sort of entrapment is wrong, they should be kept on an island somewhere or something.  Plenty of people are attracted to 15 year girls, that is a fact. It's a raw nerve in society maybe we should all walk around naked and shoot the ones who get a boner. 

You know when you look at some girl and think she is 15 and feel all fatherly and protective, but actually she's really 25?  Some people don't get this by nature, many don't, they just want to take her clothes off or are flattered by the naivety or feel some sort of emotional bond.  It's all fucked up ness of higher primate behavior and it's always been that way.  Legalize guns and protect yourself and your family but don't be a hypocrite.  There are massive grey areas, all the hate frenzy does is no good.  There are no more more of them about these days than there have ever been, whatever they are, but the hate frenzy fuels fear of helping kids in trouble in public arenas and it breaks down society and that ain't right.

If some people are seriously attracted to pre pubescent children I feel sorry for them, I really do, they need help but it's the 'Normal' ones who abuse the weak out of power play for their sadistic ends we have to look out for and in this day and age, that could be anyone.

JezWynd

The feedback I'm getting from my original query 'is there more of it about?' seems to be No, it's always been there. Which I would agree with; but what has not 'always been there' is the massive amount of images of children, many in quite innocent poses, others apparently very definitely pornographic. I get a sense that it's like a viral infection - look at a couple of these images and it sparks an interest, which becomes an obsession, which becomes an addiction. Seen in that light child pornography is the crack cocaine of the sex industry.

Myranda

JezWynd said:

The feedback I'm getting from my original query 'is there more of it about?' seems to be No, it's always been there. Which I would agree with; but what has not 'always been there' is the massive amount of images of children, many in quite innocent poses, others apparently very definitely pornographic. I get a sense that it's like a viral infection - look at a couple of these images and it sparks an interest, which becomes an obsession, which becomes an addiction. Seen in that light child pornography is the crack cocaine of the sex industry.

Given the link between drugs and prostitution I think crack cocaine is the crack cocaine of the sex industry...

However... you *might* have a point of sorts - porn addiction is said to escalate in such a way that addicts demand more and more new things - so presumably at some point they'll have exhausted the "normal" stuff and will eventually look for more unusual stuff (children, animals, snuff, etc) ...

However child porn in general is something that is so specifically niche that most wont have *caught* paedophilia, they will have been paedophiles who due to a lack of exposure were not aware... or were aware but were keeping their urges at bay... as mentioned above, these people are victims of prior abuse, or stunted developmentally, or born defective... people who aren't turned on by it don't see a naked child and suddenly develop a lust for child flesh they are repulsed ... and in fairness, child porn is pretty well hidden on the web (thankfully... I think) so its unlikely that anyone would accidentally find some - no matter what they might later claim in court

MichaelHebden

I too know this individual, and even now, my friends and I (who also played cricket with and against him) are completely disgusted and stunned by the whole affair. Apparently "Claire" originally claimed to be 20, and then, once Sladdin was hooked, "she" then admitted that "she" was actually 14. At THAT point he should've terminated all correspondence with her and reported her to the site concerned. Why he didn't, I don't know; but I'm inclined to believe his behaviour was stupid, weak, desperate and ill intentioned, rather than downright evil - but I'm not a psychiatrist. Incidentally the police did a full forensic search of his computer and phone, and found no other incriminating evidence.

However, as a previous poster has pointed out; the police should be investigating these matters and not gangs of (downright unpleasant) vigilantes / thugs, We are supposed to be living in a society governed my the rule of law.

Seeing as this IS a guitar based forum after all, I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Jimmy Page's relationship with a certain 14 yr old Lori Maddox - or is that too big an elephant for this particular room?

underdog

@MichaelHebden 14 years old and 20 years old is a hell of a difference, that's take a lot of tricking; besides most "normal" people, the second someone said they were actually 14 and not 20, would be disgusted with themselves, and to be honest if it were me who had been tricked like that I'd have gone to the police myself to clear up any potential issues that could arise.

If I had to pick if I wanted the police to investigate either someone who's was willing to fuck a 14 Year old or someone who wanted to beat up someone who wanted to fuck a child then they can investigate the peados all day long imo.