THE GUITAR SHOW - comments time

Jason

Bridgehouse said:

Jason said:

Bridgehouse said:

guitars4you said:

Bridgehouse said:

Was there a floor plan with who was where? 

If there wasn't, I'd like this. If there was then could you hand them out when you pay or hand your ticket in? I'd even pay a quid to have one so I could plan my walk round a bit better...

did you not see Black Adder - 2nd series and the plan to sale around the world - The worlds finest cartographers got together and gave him a map - blank page 

Heh, I know what you are saying - but quite seriously, every major exhibition I go to (big IT jobs in excel, Earl's Court, NEC) includes a handout with floor plan and list of exhibitors - really helps to plan a logical trip.

Hello, I have a plan, may be I should get some big ones up around the place. You don't get them when you come in because its a cost I don't have the money for, the big shows at excel and nec make way way more money than I do. Whilst you would say that this was a success (and for me it was) its a show that exists in the margins, big IT shows are probably making millions in profit. I did it for Music Live but that used to make £250,000 profit for my employer, I'm somewhat short of this figure, but a whole lot happier . Thanks for coming

@Jason - don't get me wrong - in all my comments I'm not criticising at all. It's a great show, and just how busy it was on the Saturday really does prove that it's an out and out success. 

I reckon you could do a plan for free - for most of the big IT shows they attract a 'guide sponsor' - one of the big companies who sponsor the plan - with their branding on it, they pay for it, and distribute it. Costs the organiser nothing, and your punters get a plan. 

I wonder for some of the bigger names there how much they make not in sales on the day, but in future sales as people leave with an idea of what they want. IT shows sell absolutely nothing at all at the show - it's all about lead generation and future business. I'd be tempted to survey your show goers online afterwards if you can to get some figures as to how many had a potential purchase lined up as a result of the show. Real figures to give back to the big names to show them the value of the show to them. 

Of course - I know it's about quality of life for you as well. I'm glad you do the show - I had a fab time there. I'd happily help out at future shows - volunteering of course. 

Glad you enjoyed it

This is an interesting time for me and my show, the numbers are getting there, the exhibitors have faith, I'm trying to improve it each year (f**k knows what i going to do next, but hey I have a year to figure something out )

I think / hope it gets better each year, and plans and sponsorship of them is something I can push now I have the numbers to back it up, its pretty much a chicken and egg situation each time. I was really stressed this month that the acoustic hall would fail, the live hall wouldn't work, its like changing 1/3 of a show, which increased costs etc etc

Fortunately it did work, now everyone will know there is an acoustic hall (sorry to those that missed it) we figured out a plan for reducing the live hall noise spill, but it was too late to do anything

its getting there, you will just have to bear with me, I'm just me, not a big company that can afford to push and push.

At the NEC we used to do those surveys, full staff with IPads asking loads of questions, I can tell you that the average spend was £450 with a further £1000 to be spent on products seen at the show, average distance traveled, by what means, average age, all that stuff. Only a very few of the exhibiting companies cared, they wanted instant results with follow on business irrelevant, which probably says more about them than me. It is no coincidence that the companies that did care were the bigger companies (hence why they are big I guess)

Jason

Bridgehouse said:

Jason said:

Bridgehouse said:

Shows that reach a big audience will always be really busy.

At some shows I go to companies have a 'book a slot to chat/consult' which works really well - you get a 5 or 10 minute slot to get some dedicated time guaranteed. Really helps with people flow as well and makes things less cluttered at certain stands. 

If you were looking to expand, I'd look at a multi-hall option - Bass room, Acoustic Room, prolly even an Amps room. This also helps with footfall and flow around. 

That works at a trade show but not a consumer show.

Multi room shows are horrible and flow is a nightmare, plus where do you put Yamaha (for example) electric guitar room, acoustic guitar room, amp room (with Line6), bass room, FX room,??

Its down to practicality that its all together, because you can repeat the Yamaha example over Headstock, Westside, Fender, they just don't have enough staff or want to pay for 4 stands

Good points. Like I said - wasn't criticism at all, you clearly know your onions!

If not multi-room then zoning with the biggies like Yamaha in the middle? My biggest issue was with big crowds round the PMT/Fair Deal stands getting so busy that getting to the smaller ones around them for a good look was nigh on impossible. I honestly don't know how you deal with that sort of issue tho. 

Have you had steady growth over the last few years? My worry would be that next year you get another 10-15% increase in footfall and it start to get uncomfortable in the show at the peak times..?

And, your show is a lot better organised than a lot that I go to. 

Thanks, I do try

Yamaha want to do a Fender and have a wall stand with a room off it, so they won't go in to the middle (I asked today)

I'm going to redraw the plan and try and eliminate some of the issues, but everyone wants a bigger stand (but not big enough to justify a move...)

Maybe have slightly extended opening hours on Saturday????

It was up 8.9% this year, which is amazing, any business growing that much in the current climate would be delighted, so I am

xchrisv

A big hand to @Jason for putting on another great show. From a G&B perspective we had our most successful show to date and were bombarded by positive comments. Now if someone could just arrange for a box of those veggie samosas to be sent from B'ham to Wales on a weekly basis that would be great :-) 

Bridgehouse

@Jason - if it's just you then consider me impressed.

Extended opening hours. Hmmm. I was going to suggest you could do early bird tickets at an increased cost and limited numbers - like an exclusive so there's an hour or so of early show where people get to play and wander with hardly any crowds. Wouldn't impact the main show but would bring your revenue up a bit.

And yes, your growth is good - it's a sign that it's working. 

Grow or die, I guess... 

Jason

EricTheWeary said:

Jason said:

the history of the show was that it came from the ashes of music live. Exhibitors wouldn't pay NEC prices anymore and parking was £10 per day.

I also went to the Camping and Caravan show at the NEC this week , five halls , free parking, £12 entrance but the footfall is massive, the catering extortionate,etc,etc. 

There are other places around Birmingham but from previous conversations I'm pretty sure Jason has explored all of them. I quite fancied the Custard Factory which is quite dead at the weekend and would be good for a multi hall approach and they are used to music events. It's a short walk from the city centre and there are several cafes in it plus other food places nearby. You'd have to pay for car parking though. 

Ahh the Camping and Caravan show, 80,000+ visitors who spend millions over the week.

The NEC has two ways of paying for parking

a) you charge everyone £12

b) you offer it free to visitors but ramp up the hall hire fee to cover it, this means the exhibition space costs more, so the exhibitors pay more to be there.

I knew Sam that used to run it, he was moaning one day that a company had pulled out (just the 1 company) that company's stand was more than the entire stand income I made from all of Music Live, the stand had cost £500,000!!!

Someone always pays, the venue makes sure of it, its sometimes not visitor, but they always get their money.

I've looked at the Custard Factory and to be honest, its really a bit shitty in places and flow would be terrible.

I've looked at every venue in the Birmingham area, TNBH, is the best on offer (even with its flaws)

The Ricoh would be perfect but now WASPS play one week and Cov City play the other there are about 5 weekends available in a (show) year and everyone wants them (you don't run shows in the summer, its financial suicide)

I'm on a 12000 strong Facebook group for motorhomers and it's been particularly busy this week, people from all over the UK heading to the NEC. Comments like 'I'm so excited just spent £50,000 on a new Autotrail at the NEC' really not uncommon.

Most of the football stadiums have conference facilities. The Hawthorns are quite good and it is easily accessible by road ( two minutes from M5 junction 1, free car park on non match days although not huge) and not terrible by public transport (Hawthorns rail and metro stations five minutes walk) but I guess they all have that weekend issue and probably none really offer anything better than NBH  

I've looked at all of them, unfortunately Villa Park has the best facilities but its still too small. The tour of the blues ground was hysterical - "this is our trophy room" - it had a plate in it at the time - I could barely hold it together )

The Hawthorns is too small I'm afraid

COYB!

Clarky

John_A said:

It was just too busy, saw a lovely Williams gold top I would have loved to try, but it just wasn't practical 

you could argue that too busy is a good thing… means it's a raging success...

Jason

Bridgehouse said:

Jason said:

Bridgehouse said:

4string said:

Went today for the first time in three years and the show has grown significantly. Surprised how loud it was on the floor, but loved the 'quiet' periods. The air horn was inspired. Bit tight down some of the aisles at peak times (12 to 1ish) and as others commented, banging curry. It would be a pity to move venues, but I can understand the temptation if you are that busy.

I don't think NBH has the space for the show now - it's outgrown it. More bass was a great thing, but it would be really cool to get amps, guitars (manufacturers), retailers, accessories etc. into their own areas.

At the motorbike shows (like the one in the NEC) there's the manufacturers on their big fancy stands, and then an area where companies show of their latest leathers and helmets, and then a marketplace area to pick up the bargains.. it means the footfall is easier to deal with - the marketplace is always busy, but you're not jostling around to have a chat with that small boutique maker you'd like to commission a build from because there's a bunch of people trying to get to a bargain on the PMT stand.. 

I went to the Bike show (November?? can't quite remember - didn't see anything I liked ) The big boys stands are subsidising the smaller stands, I can't quite see Fender et al doing that

But I am planning a redraw to see if we can ease some problems

I think I've probably said far too much already @Jason - and I don't want to get you down after a great show either! (Because it was!) 

I totally get the lack of alternate venue issue - and I take all your points about the size/scale of the industry and what the manufacturers will actually do.. 

A redraw may well help a lot. But you know your show a lot better than we do

In balance:

- Quiet times worked very well
- Great to see a broad range represented 
- Brilliant to see so many people coming through the doors in the first place
- It's got that show 'buzz' that some shows never have

Honestly you couldn't get me down, it was great

I like the feedback, good or bad, I also like the platform to explain why I do stuff

I love this industry, I could go and do events in other industries that could earn me way more, but I don't want to, enjoying what I do is more important these days.

Sometimes when you aren't in the middle of it you can't understand why things are the way they are, as an industry we excel at bigging ourselves up, the mags cover NAMM as if its a massive global event, big, bright, sexy, IMPORTANT

but more people go to Eric's Caravan and Camping show and spend a huge amount more

Of course also when you are in the middle of it, you sometimes can't see the wood for the trees, so this helps keep things on an even keel (for me at least)

So thank you for the feedback and thank you for coming to the show

Jason

brownovich said:

On the whole I had a great day, really enjoyed the atmosphere and most importantly the gear! I always enjoy shows as it provides the chance to try so much stuff without having to put up with the "are you gonna buy that?" glare of a retailer! Somehow managed to avoid blowing much cash but was sorely tempted!

I'd echo the feedback of others, it was obviously very busy at peak times, i didnt think it was too busy to the point of it not working, (its a show, you want it to be busy) but if it grows again next year it might well be too busy to be bearable. The car park being full before the venue opens isn't good and is probably a sign that logistically the venue has been outgrown. But hell, we parked up soon enough and it was fine.

@Adamski and I kinda assumed cards weren't accepted on the door as we couldn't see a card machine anywhere on the front table. Not a biggie & should have just asked, I still tend to think in a 2005 mindset of "will they take card?" I forget its 2017 & everywhere does! :-)

Without harping on about the noise as I'm sure others will mention it, I just wanted to say it seemed to be only a few of the exhibitors flouting the rules, (to me it looked like mainly boutique amp guys) and they were doing it time after time after time. Total disregard for everyone else. Hows about a "3 strikes and we unplug your bloody amps" rule? Everyone else seemed to respect the noise rules though. 

Aside from that it was great and i'll be back next year. Curry was awesome too!

The only other thing i'd change is that @Adamski and I arrived in Birmingham quite early on Friday, so in order to get out of our hotel for a few hours we went to the cinema see "The Great Wall" starring Matt Damon. Fucking terrible movie, so if you could stop Matt Damon making anymore films it'd be greatly appreciated.

Oi Damon, Stop it! sorted!

I thought the noise was better than last year, yes still with issues, I even had an exhibitor say to me on breakdown "I know you said if you don't tell me about it, you can't do anything about it, but I didn't tell you and he was a noisy bugger..."

seriously!

I swear they turn down when I'm walking past

Jason

chrisv said:

A big hand to @Jason for putting on another great show. From a G&B perspective we had our most successful show to date and were bombarded by positive comments. Now if someone could just arrange for a box of those veggie samosas to be sent from B'ham to Wales on a weekly basis that would be great :-) 

Cheers Chris, next time I'm down I'll bring a box of them

Jason

Bridgehouse said:

@Jason - if it's just you then consider me impressed.

Extended opening hours. Hmmm. I was going to suggest you could do early bird tickets at an increased cost and limited numbers - like an exclusive so there's an hour or so of early show where people get to play and wander with hardly any crowds. Wouldn't impact the main show but would bring your revenue up a bit.

And yes, your growth is good - it's a sign that it's working. 

Grow or die, I guess... 

its just a very odd and mostly worthless skill set, as I found out when I was made redundant from the NEC

but if it looks like it bigger company - woohoo! the smoke and mirrors works, oh hang on, thats just the music business in general

I  like the early bird idea - I'm gonna nick that, ta

Jason

Blimey its nearly one o clock and I have the school run to do in the morning, followed by breakdown

So, my comments are

a) Thank you everyone for coming - it is very much appreciated

b) I'll redraw the plan to try and ease flow

c) I will continue my battle with sound

d) I have an idea about the parking, which may or may not work, but I'll try

e) I'll make sure the live stage environment is suitable for what is on the stage

f) Early Bird tickets will go on sale, for the first hour of the show

g) I'll look at some sort of guide you can pick up and keep

Clarky

@Jason I think this show is getting better and better every year.. it's wonderful to see the attendance's rising..
and given where the industry finds itself these days I reckon the job you're doing is about as good as can be done..
I think the days of the big old shows in the Excel and Olympia 2 are long gone.. that said, I used to love it when I was playing for Laney at the British Music Fair.. it was huge..

anyways… absolutely awesome job… great show…
the only thing that would improve it in my opinion would be a proper Italian coffee stand and maybe some more places to sit and eat..

ah.. yeah.. and the volume incident at the Diezel stand a smidge after 5…
erm… blame Doug.. he had the helm of that particular amp… lol..

Bridgehouse

Jason said:

Bridgehouse said:

@Jason - if it's just you then consider me impressed.

Extended opening hours. Hmmm. I was going to suggest you could do early bird tickets at an increased cost and limited numbers - like an exclusive so there's an hour or so of early show where people get to play and wander with hardly any crowds. Wouldn't impact the main show but would bring your revenue up a bit.

And yes, your growth is good - it's a sign that it's working. 

Grow or die, I guess... 

its just a very odd and mostly worthless skill set, as I found out when I was made redundant from the NEC

but if it looks like it bigger company - woohoo! the smoke and mirrors works, oh hang on, thats just the music business in general

I  like the early bird idea - I'm gonna nick that, ta

No worries

TTony

Jason said:

g) I'll look at some sort of guide you can pick up and keep

Which - of course - we will have available here for people to download & print and plan their tours in advance

John_A

Clarky said:

John_A said:

It was just too busy, saw a lovely Williams gold top I would have loved to try, but it just wasn't practical 

you could argue that too busy is a good thing… means it's a raging success...

You could, and it was a great success, but personally would have preferred a bit more elbow room . 

guitars4you

What about the idea of Dan + Mick from The Pedal Show as a 'demo slot' with questions and answers - Believe the Q+A session this year went well

Just a thought regarding noise - but why not run 40 mins noise and 20 mins quiet every hour - granted noise can be controlled/policed by many exhibitors as well during the 'noise period'

thomasross20

I found the best time to try any guitars was through headphones during the quiet time. In fact I'd suggest for guitar demos, you make it mandatory to play through headphones (so you'd need an amp that has that feature but it's not difficult)? Then if acoustics are in a different section, the only noise you're battling is that from amplifiers. It's really the amps and how to tame them..

guitars4you

guitars4you said:

What about the idea of Dan + Mick from The Pedal Show as a 'demo slot' with questions and answers - Believe the Q+A session this year went well

Just a thought regarding noise - but why not run 40 mins noise and 20 mins quiet every hour - granted noise can be controlled/policed by many exhibitors as well during the 'noise period'

A wealth of knowledge in our trade to add to potential seminars - Repairs session with the likes of Rob Williams and Feline - Guitar changes in the industry over the last 20 years or so with Chris Vinnecombe (Guitar and bass editor) - sure there are plenty more

guitars4you

thomasross20 said:

I found the best time to try any guitars was through headphones during the quiet time. In fact I'd suggest for guitar demos, you make it mandatory to play through headphones (so you'd need an amp that has that feature but it's not difficult)? Then if acoustics are in a different section, the only noise you're battling is that from amplifiers. It's really the amps and how to tame them..

Hope you had a good trip back home - good to see you and under the circumstances I hope you had a good 2 day break - best wishes

EricTheWeary

FWIW the comic con has priority tickets - if you pay another fiver or so you can get in from 9am, normal ticket holders from 11am. It also shuts at 5pm . I guess that's a bit more pressure on stall holders but good for anyone with a specific agenda.